12 January 2018

Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc

"Flying dimes with no sectional density moving at Warp Factor Six are how we got Miami..."

No.

Firstly, the fight happened not because of a poor selection of handguns or handgun ammunition but a decision to force a confrontation on the FBI's part.

Second, bringing pistols to a rifle fight was the main problem once the fight started.

Third, the FBI issue loads were 158gr .38 Special +P lead semi-wadcutter hollow-points, 115gr 9mm Winchester Silvertip jacketed hollow-points, and 12 gauge 2-3/4" 00 buckshot.

Fourth, .38 Special +P, 158gr LSWC-HP has a sectional density is 0.176. 9x19mm 115gr Silvertip hollow-point has a sectional density of 0.130.  .705 US Mint 35gr has a sectional density of 0.010.

Fifth, the 9mm  the FBI selected was notorious for not expanding.

Sixth, it was a 9mm round that delivered the fatal shot to both criminals.  What those rounds did not do was instantly stop the fight.  THIS is what led to a decade of .40 caliber not high velocity, light bullets.

Finally, not a single .45 ACP was even present, let alone fired, so why bring it up?

10 comments:

  1. Effing idiots decided to force contact with violent felons known to be armed with rifles. Dumbasses. Only thing good to come of that fiasco was the 10mm.

    Piss poor tactics can't be blamed on sub par 9mm hollow points and slow to reload revolvers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or ammunition that wasn't even on scene!

      Delete
  2. I bookmarked (at work, will get Mon) a story by Masad Ayoob about a cop that shot a guy 17 times (!) with a .45ACP Speer Gold Dot (IIRC, some ammo like that) and the guy STILL DIDN'T FALL DOWN. It's shot placement and number of shots that make the difference. The cop involved now carries a 9mm and like 150 rds on his person.

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    Replies
    1. They did a podcast on it
      http://proarmspodcast.com/090-officer-tim-gramins-skokie-police-dept/

      Fight ended only when the cop sent three pills into the attacker's head in rapid succession.

      Handgun ammo sucks, no matter what it is.

      Delete
  3. I assume this is about the incident 30 years ago? I looked it up and lo and behold, CBS Miami cannot help themselves with the narrative.

    SNIP
    The incident is infamous in FBI history and is well-studied in law enforcement circles. Despite outnumbering the suspects 4 to 1, the agents found themselves pinned down by heavy rifle fire and unable to respond effectively due to their much smaller service handguns. The suspects had a Ruger assault rifle, a shotgun and .357 caliber handguns. Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the firefight, Platt fought on and continued to injure and kill agents. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in many police departments around the country including more powerful semiautomatic weapons for all FBI agents.

    “Although it was 30 years ago, it is something that will remain for us because it changed us,” said FBI Director James Comey. “It changed our equipment. It changed our training. It changed how we do our work.”
    SNIP

    So help me, I did not know Ruger had an "assault rifle" in 1986, heck, I don't think they have made an "assault rifle" to this day. Anyone have a Ruger full automatic rifle that has been fielded by a military, anywehere?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Royal Bermuda Regiment used the Mini-14. They're nominally military.

      Delete
    2. Ruger produced a highly modified Mini 14 variant called the AC556 that was full auto and marketed for LE and military use.

      Delete
  4. Evidently this is now a thing: https://wanderingthroughthenight.wordpress.com/2018/01/13/terminal-ballistics-much-fire-and-fury-over-the-internet/

    ReplyDelete
  5. H3h, thank Angus, Bermuda it is. Semi auto, in other words a normal ranch plinker I have used to clear rabbits and other vermin.

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