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I've lost track of the number of times that a .357 has been loaded with .38 Special because...
There's no reason, it's just our policy.
The first time I bumped into this was when the SEALs in Vietnam asked for S&W Model 19 revolvers.
Someone, with authority over whether such guns were purchased or not took one to the range with the issue .38 ammo he could get from the supply system and compared it with the Model 15 and decided that there was no advantage to getting the Model 19 and ordered the Model 15's.
Yeah, exactly the same if you use .38 Special and never try .357 in it...
Then I was reading about the '86 Miami shootout. McNeill and Mireles were carrying, with approval, privately owned .357 Magnum revolvers, Orrantia was (likely) packing the issue model 13 .357; and all were firing the issue .38 Special.
Then I keep bumping across stories of departments mandating the use of department issued ammo and nobody issuing .357 Magnum even if they issued or allowed guns chambered for it.
If you're not going to issue .357 ammo, then why buy guns for it?
Because CYA, that is why. Imagine the repercussions for the brass (politicians) if somehow they were issuing 38 special arms and some .357 gets into the squad room then a beat cop blows his fingers off (or worse if unlucky).
ReplyDeletePure CYA.
I have a Ruger R100 rated for 38SP and keep it well separate from anything that uses .357 but then I don't work for the .gov in any flavor.
The 0.1" longer .357 case should not chamber in a .38 cylinder. If it does, something is very wrong.
DeleteThanks, have not delved into the measurements, was simply going by the copious warnings Ruger puts out with the 38SP wheelgun to NOT load it with 357 shells. To me the warning implied that the shell could possibly fit the chambers. This is curious. I will do some checking to make sure the R100 38SP does not accept .357, did buy the thing used from a maybe reputable local arms dealer ;-)
DeleteBecause the firearm is in the system, it makes buying it easier. It's on GSA.
ReplyDeleteThe .38 ammo is in the system; it makes buying it easier. It's on GSA
The .357 ammo supplier never got a NSN part number or Cage code so it just about impossible to buy it. It might take a year or more to get on GSA.
Purchasing agent or supply staff just say F it and goes with what is easier to purchase.
In the SEAL case, it was an attempt at a COTS purchase before we had the term COTS. They intended to get off the shelf .357 ammo too.
DeleteThe Model 13 is a .357 and the FBI issue ammo for it was a .38 Special 158gr +P. I suspect the .357 model here was because the hot FBI ammo wore out Model 10's prematurely.
One reason could be that a revolver chambered for 357 will almost always full-length eject 38 spl. Since not all 357s will full length eject 357, it's likely that many 38 spls also suffer from this defect. Not saying it's right; you asked for a reason...
ReplyDeleteWell, .357 Magnum revolvers are ioften bigger and heavier than a .38 Special only revolver. That's an advantage and disadvantage. Advantage that theoretically it might have less felt recoilm disadvantage that you're carrying around more weight. I wonfer if there were price differences? You'd think a .357 Mag revolber would cost more since it is more capable, but perhaps the makers offered different pricing to promote it. That's pure speculation of course. Normally ahencies will buy the cheaper option. Clearly that's likely why they only issued .38 Spl ammo, because it is almost always much cheaper than .357 Mag ammo.
ReplyDelete-swj
For police, I think it's a combination of things. .357 guns were probably precieved as being more durable and would therefore cost less in the long run due to less repairs and replacements. Then .38 spl was issued due to more favorable optics with the public. Officer Friendly seems a bit more, er, friendly, without the scary sounding magnum cartridge. I think I remember Ian McCullum discussing this some years back.
ReplyDelete-RF