Missing Wonder Nines

The OG Wonder Nines™, in roughly chronological order, are the H&K VP70, S&W 59, CZ CZ75, Star M28, H&K P7M13 and Beretta 92.

This is if you accept:

"Wondernine: A term coined by gunwriter Robert T. Shimek to denote the modern breed of 9mm Parabellum auto pistols of recent design, usually featuring high magazine capacity and a double-action trigger mechanism or other modern ignition system (e.g., the squeeze-cocker of the Heckler & Kock P7 series or the Safe Action of the Glock)." 

J. Libourel

I've argued that the hoary old Browning Grand Puissance should be included despite the lack of a double action.

I further define the OG's as pre-Glock, so vaguely 1980 for the cutoff.  Yes, I know the Glock P.80 didn't enter service until 1982, but that 80 stands for 1980! 

I don't really think of the H&K P7M13 when I think of wonder nine, but Shimek included it.

I'm missing examples of the VP70, CZ 75, P7M13 and Star M28.

I don't have the first three because they're expensive as fuck compared to other guns.  The Star is a bit obscure but I've seen one for sale on Gunbroker every time I've looked.

CZ thinks they are H&K with regards to pricing; though prices appear to have come down a lot lately.

The VP70 and P7M13 are actual H&Ks in addition to being collectibles.

I've fired them all though.

I like the CZ quite a bit, but I appear to be immune to the Kool-Aid.  My ham-fists aren't precise enough to grab the narrow slide sometimes and the disassembly is archaic.

The VP70 is just plain unpleasant to shoot because of that trigger.  I remember seeing a lot of them in Polizei holsters in and around Stuttgart.

The P7M13 is goofy.  I found it tiring because I over-gripped the stapler-gun safety.  I wasn't given enough rounds to get the front blazing hot.

The Star I got to shoot had a bad extractor and didn't run well, but it was comfortable and the bullets went where they were told.  It's got the same narrow slide problem I have with the CZ.

It Shoots

For some reason I'm better with the Gen 1 Classic than the P80 Classic.

Two mags at 7 yards.

The factory Glock sights still suck for me trying to go fast on a 3x3 set of rings though.  Lack of practice, I am sure.

The Gen 1 Classic's slide doesn't scrape the top of my hand like the P80 Classic.  Odd.

Who Has To Die?

There was a story that went around the gun sphere a while ago where someone asked a Glock rep at a convention, "Who has to die to get a single stack Glock?"

The reply was, "Gaston."

IYKYK

Glock has recently recognized that metal magazines without a plastic sheath are durable enough for everyday use after... um... more than a century.

Apparently they have contracted with MecGar for new magazines for the 43x and 48 which ups the round count from 10 to 15.

I, for one, welcome our insect overlords.

Panzer Guy, in the comments, asked for my thoughts about it and I think that it's Glock finally admitting that the customers deserve a vote about what Glock should make because the customers decide what they are going to buy.

If Glock fails to make something they want to purchase, they will buy from a vendor that does.

Someone like S&W and their Shield Plus that packs 13 rounds in about the same profile as Glock pack 10...

The new all metal magazines pack 15 in the space that used to hold 10 and that's 2 more than Smith...  That's a good look.

I also think the Gen6 guns are a response to customer feedback that's been accumulating since Gen3.  I also note that Gaston Glock did, indeed, die between Gen3 and Gen6 (he died after Gen5 came out).

Personally I've felt that every generation of Glock has been a good progression since the beginning, except for the finger bulges on 3 and 4.  I have to admit wanting the bulges when they came out and later deciding they were for someone else's hand.

Not every generation has had a smooth rollout.  I remember when the 4th gen hit and people were wondering where the reliability had gone.  Quickly fixed, but a hiccup.

I've no hands-on experience with the Gen6, but have been hearing good things.

Marv needs a Gen6 Glock 19, I think. 

Just To Be Complete

Most of my service with tanks, I carried an M1911A1, not a Glock 17.

When we got back from the Czech border, we finally got our M9's to go with our 9x19mm ammo.

But I never carried my Beretta like this:

We had the Bianchi M13 shoulder holsters based on the UM-84.  Those things sucked.  Lots of guys used their old M7 holsters as I have pictured above.

Nostalgia Rig

How I toted on the Czech-West German border.

If I had not disregarded the future collectors, this picture would be impossible for lack of a lanyard.

Classic Glock 17

The P80 Classic did not fill the void.

So I've kept hunting for either a real steal on an actual Gen1 or a decent deal on a Gen 1 Classic.

I found the Classic because the seller listed it as a real Gen1 and that wouldn't attract someone who wanted a Classic.

Without regards to future collectors, I decided to make it a clone of my actual first Glock 17.

This means I can put the lanyard on it!

The hole for the lanyard is not on the initial issue of the P80 or G17, and it appears erratically in production until all guns after a certain point have it.  The one I bought at the Patch Rod and Gun Club had the hole, as did the one I bought later at Jacobson's Gun Center.  The gun I bought stateside also had adjustable sights for ATF import points.

Here's what's wrong with the P80:

And here's why the Gen 1 Classic is acceptable:

And except for the serial number range, that's all the differences between them!

 I think I, very quietly, crossed the line to being a Glock collector without noticing.

Connected

Top to bottom: Glock 17 Gen 2, Glock 21 Gen 2, Glock P80 (Gen 3 guts).

All the unmarked "5.5 lb." connector.

The 17.2 has a 6 lb. 8 oz. pull, the 21.2 has a 3 lb. 12 oz. pull, the P80 has a 6 lb. 13 oz. pull.

Go figure.

One Of Us One Of Us

Today we welcome Marv into the cult club of double-stack .45 ACP goodness.   Also into the Cult of Gaston.

He's obtained an ex-cop Glock 21.3SF.  (That's model 21, Gen 3, slim-frame).

Glock Talk's serial number project has not yet reached his prefix, so we're not sure exactly when it was made.  Guessing 2011 from the number on the trigger bar.

The trigger breaks with a crisp 7.5 lb; but the take up is atrociously gritty.

The gritty could be from it having never been cleaned in the approximately 15 years it has been in service.

From the pattern of scratches and wear, it was worn by a right handed officer.

It's ever so much lighter than my Gen 2 and the "slim" part of the frame is in the palm.  We didn't know that.

I expect we're going to be making a range report before too long.

Trying To Stack Them Deep

A problem with having a modern gun for carry is the original manufacturer is the sole supplier of magazines for them because the place you normally get them cheaper is the actual manufacturer!

Pistol mags are hovering around $43ish for our M&P 9 2.0 Compacts.  Based on the markings, Mecgar makes them and they'd be about $30 each... but S&W appears to have a no-compete clause in the contract.

Having gotten accustomed to $15 magazines for AR's, it's a bit of sticker shock.

Most of the handguns around here get by on three or four magazines per gun because they don't get out much.  Some as few as two magazines!

I think I should have more available for the guns that get shot more regular like. 

We will endeavor to persevere! 

Honey Where ARE All the Magazines?

I have a spreadsheet that tells me how many of what kind of magazine we own.

That doesn't tell us where we left them.

Harvey complained about constantly downloading one of her carry magazines to load at the gun range.

That's just extra wear and tear, so I said to use one of the other M&P magazines we had laying around.

Turns out, she already had the only one not in actual use in her range bag already.

We have a "pesky" number of them scattered about in case of boarding action and all but one of the 17 round magazines is loaded and prepped.  All of the 15 round 2.0 Compact (distinct from the 12 round 1.0 Compact mags which are now 2.0 SUBcompact mags) magazines are in use from us carrying them.

Well.

Looks like we're going magazine shopping soon! 

Stirring Controversy

In my experience... (second only to "no shit, there we were...")

I've found that Colt has a better trigger out of the box, but that the revolver will go out of time faster than a Smith & Wesson.

S&W's triggers "wear in" to being very good after a few hundred rounds, but can be irritating right out of the box.  S&W tends to be more durable than Colt once you have years and years of shooting it.

This position is, apparently, controversial.

It is also based on a very small sample size, I haven't bought many new revolvers.

Because That's Why

Whenever anyone questions why you've bought any particular gun just reply, "because it delights me you joyless scold!"

I've had this conversation about my .45 Colt Anaconda a couple of time and I am fully aware that they made and make them in .44 Magnum.

Don't care.

That giant gun in the, by modern standards, under-powered round gives me the giggles and I really can't see anything changing that.

Strangely, I never see them complain about a S&W 25-5  when the Model 29 is the same gun except in .44 Magnum...

I get the same delight from my useless .25 ACP guns.

I went out of my way to find a .38 Super Gov't Model in as plain-Jane trim as I could get and then "ruined" it by putting a short trigger and arched mainspring housing on it.  It delights me to do so.

Having a clone of an M16, M16A1, M16A2 and M16A4 delights me.

The XM177E2 clone delights me even though I had to make a short barrel rifle of it and am only a fraction of an inch shorter than a 16" barrel with the moderator screwed onto the end of the 11.5" barrel. 

The purple AR delights me.

The people who are grimly utilitarian about gun ownership should really start relaxing.

Once your needs are met, Maslow, you can move up the pyramid. 

Sidearm

A thread about swords on Arfcom got me thinking...

Swords are sidearms, not primary weapons most of the time.  It's the weapon you pull when your main weapon goes tits up.

It's a weapon to show your status.

That's not how most of us gamers did it most of the time...

When we did, however, we hardly ever had cause to use them.

I've got so many character sheets that have secondary weapons that I never used.

Not a sword when I had a polearm.

Not a pistol when I had a rifle.

But...  You never knew when the GM would decide to break your main weapon and better to have it and not need it that to need it and not have it.

Where have I heard that before?

Itch Fully Scratched

There's a local gun shop that's doing door-buster Black Friday deals.

Among them are $99 Glocks.

Besides not being willing to engage in hand to hand combat to get close enough to the door when they open to snag one before they sell out...

My Glock itch is fully scratched.

The Glock 21 is my lesson to not trade off a gun for stupid reasons.

The two Glock 17's are nostalgia purchases to fill the holes left by my first two Gen1's.

The Glock 45 is my "modern" Glock, which I mainly got because Glock offered Blue Label guns to veterans.

S&W M&P are my plastic fantastics of choice.

That Did Not Take Long

 

The things are barely on the shelves and someone has already managed to make a switch for one despite all of the anti-Glock Switch provisions Glock made to change from Gen5 to GenV. 

With enough effort, any semi-automatic firearm can be converted to full auto or select fire.

Even the more complicated 1911 has been so converted.  All the way back in the 1920's!

PS: You will note that I did not tag this post with the "crime" label.  This Glock Switch appears to have been made by a licensed SOT/FFL, and is thus perfectly legal.

Glock Magazine Quick-Disassembly Tool

After struggling with the Otis tool, I wondered if there was a better way.

Real-Avid must have as well!

It works so much better!

You put the button on the post sticking out horizontally:

Then you push down against the bar, that levers the base off the little tabs.

Then you put the hole in the baseplate over the vertical post and slide the body back:

It drops the baseplate and locking plate into the little tray and you just lift the body up and the spring remains controlled.

You can reverse that last step to reassemble them!

Works with Glock 21 magazines too!

This is so much better than the Otis one, I highly recommend!

The underside is also a magazine unloader.

Glock Magazine Disassembly Tool

The Otis brand Glock magazine disassembly tool arrived today!

It works really well on magazines that have been disassembled before and not at all for the first take down!

For the first take down you need a flat-blade screwdriver and come in from the back.

This will deform the little retainer nubbins enough that the tool will have enough leverage next time. 

How it's supposed to work:  You depress the subfloor button with the nubbin of the tool...

Then you lever it against the front wall of the magazine until the floorplate clears the subfloor button.

It's much harder than it needs to be.

The newer magazines are much harder to get apart than the 1994 models I have here too!  Perfection! I guess.

I also found an older magazine loader in my pile of things.

The new one has a texture and is slightly shorter.

They moved the logo too!

Important P80 Answers

No.  You cannot put a lanyard on your Glock P80 Classic.  The hole is missing.

Yes!  Your Glock P80 Classic does fit in an M7/M9 tanker holster!

 Just like 1989!

Pistole P80

My Classic Edition Glock 17 arrived today!

Interestingly, it's not called a Glock 17 anywhere on the gun's markings or the box.

The model number on the label is P80.

 Collectible, magnetic closure, cardboard box.

 Certificate of Authenticity!  With nothing to tie it to this specific gun, so...

Tupperware!

My example appears to be nearly unfired if it was fired at all.

My low-ball bid was $350 (plus shipping, insurance, taxes and transfer fees).  The original owner paid a bit more:

The trigger is standard Glock and breaks at about 7 lb.

The magazines are the same as what came with my Glock 45, but with black instead of orange followers. 

It's 0.6 oz. lighter than a Gen 2; 1 lb. 8.8 oz. vs 1 lb. 9.4 oz. with an empty magazine.  Could that be the metal, tritium sights on my Gen 2 vs the plastic?

The slides will interchange.

The only real visible differences are the slide marking and grip textures.  I find I really like the old texture and contour.  It fits my hand really well.

Something I think is neat is the tooling left a ghost of a mark where the lanyard hole should be.

 

Speaking Of Glock Differences

The capsule version of Glock 17 (superficial visual frame) differences.

Gen 1: Pebble texture all around on the grip.  Only the Glock 17 was ever Gen 1!

Gen 2: Waffle pattern added to front and back of grip.

Gen 3: Awful finger bumps added.

Gen 4: Removable back-strap added.

Gen 5: Awful finger bumps removed. 

Glocks are referred to by this generation scheme even if the first generation of a model is in a different overall generation.

The first Glock 21 is a Gen 2 even though there were never any Gen 1 Glock 21's.

The first Glock 45 is a Gen 5 even though there were never any Gen 1-4 Glock 45's.

It's actually quite simple.