If you're converting a different Fantasy game to GURPS, you will need Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers and Dungeon Fantasy 7: Clerics to retain the Magic User/Cleric/Druid distinctions and flavor.
You need not convert all the powers or spells from the old game because you're playing GURPS now; so play GURPS!
Play it in the other setting, but play GURPS.
It just hit me that Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is set in the same time frame as the English Civil War.
How about that?
Kinda cements the idea that adding some blackpowder guns doesn't wreck the fantasy world feel too much.
It also underscores how little you really need to do to make WFRP work under GURPS, if you're motivated and not easily distracted.
Which, I'm sorry to say, I am unmotivated and easily distracted.
In a nutshell, 95% is already done.
If you wanna preserve the distinction between mage and cleric, you need a couple of GURPS: Dungeon Fantasy supplements.
All that's left is a couple of the world specific races and I've been plugging away at them.
It's slow work because WFRP is not well grounded in reality and that means converting stats is an irritating slog.
Clerics and Druids draw their power and spells from a different source than Mages, so it seems a little unfair that they have to spend the same fatigue points on them.
By way of example, an hour of hiking unencumbered uses a fatigue point. Many spells use three or four fatigue in a few seconds for a single casting.
Dungeon Fantasy 1, anticipating my post here, makes a large hunk of spells off-limits to Mages. This is not the first thing I noticed about the DF series that makes GURPS more like AD&D.
To think; I was trying to figure it out on my own.
It also occurs that DF is ALSO the conversion of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay for the game mechanics side. All I really need to do is make the racial templates, and I have a decent pack of them already.
The 250 point templates in Dungeon Fantasy baffle me a bit. The stats are VERY high and a couple of skills are way high, but they're very inefficiently made. I have a couple of characters for a fantasy setting at 150 that are better at the job, except for melee combat.
I'm less hack and slash than they are, I guess.
Some of the starting career classes in WFRP 1e might be 50 point characters in GURPS 4e! Lots of normies in that list.
Power Investiture is the religious equivalent to Magery in GURPS.
Sanctity is the religious equivalent to the mana level.
To make clerics all I need to do is make some tailored spell lists for the gods and define some of the self-imposed mental disadvantages required of the pact that's built into the power investiture.
Druids, being similar to clerics, make their pact with nature instead of a specific god and will have a different kind of sanctity.
Paladins and Rangers would have lower levels of power investiture and would follow much the same path. It becomes a character design and flavor decision.
I just need to sit down and do it.
I'm getting there.
Generic D&D doesn't even bother to define the gods or how they differ from one another or if it's monotheism or polytheism. OG AD&D seems like a monotheism; later settings have polytheistic pantheons. YMMV.
All of this applies to Warhammer FRP too.
Of note: The warlock from later versions of D&D appears to use a similar structure as the clerics, but with non-divine entities. Since it's access to arcane rather than divine power, they'd use Power Investiture and the mana level to do their thing.
One thing I've noticed is the spell lists have a lot of overlap in what they can do.
I've managed to make a workable set of stat conversions from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay to GURPS.
It utterly falls apart when going past the humanoid character level, but by that point I have other benchmarks to compare with.
It took too long.
The average Warhammer human fails stat checks at a different rate than the average GURPS human.
Once I scaled around that...
CLICK!
The work progresses.
I will at least get the humanoids converted. Most of them, like elves, dwarves, and the lot, just get the default racial stats GURPS already provided.
I came up with a solid one-shot fantasy scenario the last time I was in Iowa.
One of the player's utter inability to get past a simple security measure at the city gates derailed the entire thing, so it never got played to completion.
That means I can still use it!
When FuzzyGeff next visits, I could dump him into it again with JT and Marv!
I've had fantasy on the mind lately with the new edition of AD&D coming out and the many gamer youtubers talking about it.
Not that I'm getting a new version of AD&D to play a fantasy setting.
I'm invested in GURPS and I'll stick with it.
Something I really like to do, if I had time and sufficient players, is to run the full ATDGQ series of modules from AD&D with GURPS.
They'd start at T1 - The Village of Hommlet with 150 point characters and we'd go from there and see if they survive to Q1 - Queen of the Demonweb Pits.
The whole series is;
T1 - The Village of HommletT2 - Nulb and the RuinsT3 - Dungeons of Elemental EvilT4 - Nodes of Elemental EvilA0 - Danger at Darkshelf QuarryA1 - Slave Pits of the UndercityA2 - Secret of the Slavers' StockadeA3 - Assault on the Aerie of the Slave LordsA4 - In the Dungeons of the Slave LordsG1 - Steading of the Hill Giant ChiefG2 - The Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant JarlG3 - Hall of the Fire Giant KingD1 - Descent Into the Depths of the EarthD2 - Shrine of the Kuo-ToaD3 - Vault of the DrowQ1 - Queen of the Demonweb Pits
UPDATE: Order fixed based on Wikipedia information that I looked up because Beans caught them out of order.
Since GURPS is capable of handling all the standard Fantasy tropes, I'd only have to make a couple of monsters and, maybe, translate a spell or three. Simple.
Simpler than converting Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. WFRP doesn't really need translating. It just needs stats for some monsters and let the rules changes be changed and don't chase parity of effect with them. Remember, you're changing rule systems for a reason!
Skaven (WFRP 1e p.226)
9 Points
Attribute Modifiers: HT+1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Will-2 [-10]; SM 0.
Advantages: Damage Resistance +1 (Tough Skin, -40%) [3]; Night Vision +5 [5]; Sharp Teeth [1].
Disadvantages:
Features: Fur, Tail.
Talents:
This is how far I've gotten the races for the GURPS conversion of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying (1e).
This is the bog-standard Skaven. Shamen and chaos-mutated versions to come later.
A sticking point was how to stat out their filthy bites.
They point out that there's a chance that you'll get an infection from being bitten.
I was stressing what this would be in terms of afflictions when I noticed that this chance of causing an infection after a bite is mentioned with several run of the mill animals.
No need to give stats on something normal and everyday that a common dog has.
Not finding any actual rules for what disease you'd catch in Warhammer led to FuzzyGeff's remembrance of the lack of rules and violet fungi.
The character stats from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay do not coalesce into anything you can directly convert to GURPS.
The more I read the rules and compare, the more "Kentucky windage" the adaptations get.
Going for feel rather than mathematical precision.
It should be noted, before I start wandering here, that all the various kinds of swords we have put names to were just called "sword" in their day. Most of the names are from archaeologists attempting to sort out the timeframes of grave goods.
Oakeshott typology is probably the most famous way to sort what GURPS will call a "broadsword" and D&D will call a "longsword."
GURPS has a list of swords that are all "broadswords" under the rules.
The D&D 5e equivalent to "broadsword" is "longsword" and it covers a wide variety of side-arms. Perhaps more because the "versatile" tag means it can be used 2-handed; which would imply bastard sword is included.KhopeshBroadswordLarge FalchionPataShotelBastard Sword (used one handed)DaoEstocHook-SwordJianKatanaLongswordBackswordCavalry SaberEdged Rapier
This is a continuation from 4e where the weapons list is a bit longer, but still much shorter than 2e. I don't have any 3e books (or 3.5e books for that matter).
2e was longer than AD&D.
D&D, starting with 4e makes a distinction between "simple" and "military" weapons. 5e calls the distinctions "simple" and "martial."
With how over-the-top inclusive Wizards of the Coast went, I cannot but wonder if these categories are from the thinking about "assault weapons" among liberals.
The historical divide over some weapons is related to sumptuary laws in that you needed to be of a certain social rank to have them.
Cost wasn't the only reason a peasant didn't have a sword in many places.
But ahistorically egalitarian D&D can't make the common/noble distinction and still have adventurers, so...
I'm amused to note that 2e has a firearm, an arquebus. It also adds the rapier. 4e and 5e don't have guns, but keep a sword that was developed from guns driving armor off the battlefield.
Warhammer FRP is even more consolidated, most everything is a "hand weapon"
Hand Weapon: This broad class includes one-handed axes, swords, clubs, maces and hammers. These weapons are all comparable in use and effect, and no distinction is made between them in the rules.
Yet it still has a rapier...
Pathfinder 2e follows the same pattern as D&D (shocking! I know) but breaks the falchion out from longsword and still has a separate bastard sword.
Rapier without firearms again...
LBB Traveller has guns, so many guns...
Sword is the one handed, all inclusive sword. Broadsword is a two-hander. Cutlass is loosely defined enough to include a rapier.
Top Secret might have rules for swords, it definitely has rules for throwing them...
Top Secret SI has a "sword".
According to the Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play 1st Edition main rule book...
Dwarfs are noteworthy miners, but no notes about being technologically superior to any of the other four player races other than mentioning they're experts at metalworking.
Here's the racial description:
Dwarfs are short, burly creatures, immediately recognisable by their long hair and thick beards. They have a natural affinity with the mountains, where they live in caverns and mines hewn from the rock. Dwarfs are expert stone-workers, and generally adept at all manner of industrial crafts, such as ironworking, the making of fine swords and the manufacture of superb jewellery. Some Dwarfs live amongst Humans as metal-workers or craftsmen of some kind, and their work is highly prized. Physically they are resilient, quite strong and rather ugly. They are somewhat greedy, gruff, unfriendly, short-tempered and antisocial. They tolerate Humans because they have so many business dealings with them, but dislike Elves, who they find arrogant and irritating, and with whom they have little in common. They favour axes as weapons of war, and make very sturdy Warriors. They are not very magical, however, and their disposition tends to make them rather poor Academics.
West Pondish spellings in the original.
I get that they do more industrial stuff and are on the cutting edge, but nothing that says they're ahead of the other races.
The two firearms listed in Warhammer are a pistol and a blunderbuss.
The illustrations and presence of fencing weapons makes me think that it's TL4 from 1550 to 1650 for tech.
Blunderbusses don't happen until flintlocks become available, and that doesn't really happen until the late 17th century and the blunderbuss wasn't a separate gun until the 18th century...
A fantasy setting that doesn't adhere to history? What's next, elves? Oh... right!
I'm going to pick 1650 for my benchmark technology date. It feels right.
Technomad, chime in if you think otherwise!
This date allows for the fusil de chasse which is a lot lighter and handier than a Elizabethan musket; 6.5 lb. vs 21 lb and a rest!
It does a lot less damage, 2d+2 pi+ but at about the same sucky ranges. DR 9 is actually proof against its average hit too!
The more martial fusil ordinaire is larger caliber and does 3d pi++. DR 11 is needed to stop the average hit, but that's a lot more attainable than DR 16!
Update:
Heavy plate corselet with full Lighten and 2 castings of Fortify: DR 11, $23,000, 16 lb.
Heavy plate duplex and fluted with full Lighten and 1 casing of Fortify: DR 11, $68,525, 12.8 lb.
Medium plate with full Lighten and 5 castings of Fortify: DR 11, $150,200, 10 lb.
Medium plate duplex and fluted with full Lighten and 4 castings of Fortify: DR 11, $97,700, 8 lb.
FuzzyGeff has begun to sort out the magic items from WFRP and noticed that they don't have any monetary value assigned.
He's confident he can create the GURPS effects of the item from using the advantages and disadvantages lists...
But this leaves us someplace I loathe in GURPS.
I didn't care for it in Champions either.
It reared its ugly head in GURPS: Cyberpunk most loudly.
When I go to get my meat arm lopped off and replaced with a shiny metal one, do I pay with money or points?
If I paid with money, do I change the point values on my character sheet to reflect the change?
If I paid with points, do I have to pay the money too?
I made a command decision with cyberwear to charge points only during character generation and cash after play had begun. If you paid cash, you changed the points on your sheet. It also required that I paid attention to the clever players and made sure they didn't take a gob of wealth just to spend on cyberwear after play began because wealth was cheaper.
It took a lot of subjective effort to referee.
WFRP items have no cash value. That can't be true, such things will have a cash value, there's no OFFICIAL value.
So, we're going to have to go with... Found is found. Change your points to reflect ownership, or the disposal of such things.
It will mean that someone can start a campaign with a magic item by blowing the points. But it also allows for the generation of more experienced characters and NPCs in a format that readily shows the relative power levels.
That might just reduce the surprise when you total-party-kill because you didn't realize what that staff did to your bad-guy's efficiency.
Warhammer has its own magic system.
I think I can make it work with GURPS.
Magery levels become your Wizard levels.
Sanctity levels become your Cleric and Druid levels.
Magic Points will come with the levels and I think the cost structure is already proportionate to the original game.
Then I'll have to go through all the spells and give a write up of each in GURPS terms. Tedious, but not too hard.
Probably simpler than trying to get the GURPS spell list to work in WFRP.
Well... It would be simplest just to ignore the WFRP spells and use the GURPS: Magic book.
But the Warhammer spells have a distinct flavor to them and the specialized wizard classes are worth keeping.
Went through the list of skills in Warhammer and figured out their nearest GURPS equivalent.
I am coming to the conclusion that the WFRP writers were theater people.
Lots of specific kinds of theatrical performance are given their own skill.
GURPS just says, "Performance".
Many of the "skills" turn out to be advantages in GURPS. One is even a disadvantage.
It's not that hard to translate. 10 or less on 3d is a 50% chance, for example. So a 50 Dex would be DX 10. A 5 S would become ST 10. And so on. The average human in WFRP has lower stats than the average human in GURPS. ST, DX and IQ would be 8 or 9. HT would be 10 or 11 though!
It's not just a shifted mean, the average human in WFRP really isn't as good as the average human in GURPS.
The average range of stats for WFRP 1e comes close enough to the base
stats in GURPS to say "close enough" for new character generation and just use the standard base 10.
I am uncertain that I need conversions for existing characters, but I think I can come up with them.
GURPS is a 3d6 system and you roll target or less.
WFRP is a percentile system, rolling target or less.
I suppose I'll have to make a chart or something.This applies to skills as well, and turns out to be easier than feared. Most "tests" are applied against the governing stat with a modifier for having an appropriate skill. Since GURPS skills are stat-based, I'm 2/3 the way there!
Definitely going to need a table of WFRP Skill = GURPS Skill. Same for spells...
Warhammer Fantasy Role Play 1e to GURPS 4e: Stats.
Obviously, we're going to toss the old system's number in favor of the new, but we have to select values that reflect those in the old system.
WFRP has many more stats that GURPS.
14 vs 4 primary, 4 derived.
WFRP gambles for stats and GURPS spends points. So we see what the dice will give and see if there's a basis for comparison with GURPS.
Strength, Wounds, Dexterity and Intelligence equate to ST, HT, DX and IQ. Will Power equates to Will.
Movement equates to Basic Speed.
The standard human will come in at just under the default GURPS starting level. 8 or 9 compared to 10 based on the chance of a check against that stat succeeding.
The career classes add to the stats give suggestions to add to the stats, so most character templates will get more than GURPS 10's.
The WFRP encumbrance system is a weight and bulk composite model, GURPS is pure weight.
Some rough calculations makes me think that just using the GURPS Basic Lift will come out close enough at the end of the day so we can ignore the WFRP numbers entirely. Between the Basic Set and Low Tech, we have all the equipment listed in WFRP, so just use the GURPS numbers.
I'm going to use Low Tech to generate the armor listed already, so...
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