Bang-bang Bang

Took the .38 Super Gov't Model out today.

Such a honey!

Of course, that means Mozambique drills!

The nine shot magazine capacity is a natural for these drills too!

I do not regret getting this pistol in the slightest.

Even if the hammer bites me.

A Brief History Of .38 Super

 

Interesting Claim

This video:

He says the Super outsold the .45 from its inception to the early '70's.

That's interesting.

Judging by the used guns available, I don't think so.

The JMB Collection

Braved the cold to show off the "Touched by JMB" collection.

L->R

Colt 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)

Colt 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)

FN 1905 Vest Pocket (.25ACP)

Colt Challenger (.22 LR)

Ithaca M1911A1 (.45 ACP)

Colt Gov't Model (.38 Super)

FN Hi-Power (9x19mm Parabellum)

Just For The Record

I did not get my Colt Gov't Model in .38 Super because of its competition lineage.

I got it because I was researching the Prohibition Era and I like 1911's!

I think this explains why.

Old Skinny And Fast

 Old NFO touches on the Government Model.

You don't have to accept slow and fat.

.38 Super works just fine.

If you want fat, but don't want slow, you can always get a 10mm ACP version.  You can.  I can't.  Those things are NOT in the budget at La Casa de McThag.

I reiterate something I've long said about the "1911" and that there's nothing wrong with the M1911.

There's lots wrong with the clones of the M1911 that have tarnished the reputation of this revolutionary design.

I've talked about that too.

Many clones are trying to make the design something it was not intended to be.

The M1911 is a combat pistol, it's a sidearm.

It is not a target pistol.

But too many clones are making target pistols and that compromises the design.

Then people get surprised when it doesn't run right.

Yet they'd understand that while both things are cars, you don't use a Formula 1 car for a road trip and you don't enter a minivan at Monaco.

Gun writers have failed to educate their readers expectations.

Hand Cannon

.357 SIG is about as identical to .38 Super, ballistically, as you can get.

The gigantic difference is the pistol.

My .38 Super 1911 Gov't Model shoots a 5" group centered around the point of aim at 25 yards.

Harvey's .357 SIG Sigma shoots a 6" tall, 3" wide group 4" below the point of aim at 7 yards.

I can shoot that Colt all day and am done with the Smith after 20 rounds.

Oh, don't get on my bad side when I'm carrying that Colt because my splits are insanely small.  I have been asked to stop bringing it to two bowling pin events.

My 1911 Likes And Dislikes

 

I've been issued a couple.

I've owned a few.

They fit my hand well and I shoot them well.

I've, thankfully, had no problems with any I've owned.

My last issue gun kept shedding its front sight because the unit armorer didn't know how to stake a new one in.  I don't know either, but it's not my job.

I like how they are slim.

I dislike that they are heavy.

I think that I shoot them well enough that their lower capacity compared to the soulless plastic that has supplanted it doesn't matter.  But I prefer more chances to hit the target afforded by the newer designs.

I must have the correct sized meat hooks that the grip safety never gave me a bit of trouble.

1911's have soul.  As does an HP-35.

There's even soul in a metal framed Smith auto, like the 59.

I like the storied history of the thing and how it remains in production despite the advances in technology and the naysayers.

I like how you can make it completely yours from a list of parts that's at least as big as what you can do with an AR, even if it lacks the Lego-like simplicity and ease of installation.

About Them Red Dots

Talking to FuzzyGeff I am reminded that I was victorious TWICE shooting my .38 Super 1911 despite my opponent using a Glock 17 and a red-dot.

He was blazing fast, but I was simply better.

Amusingly, this same shooter was nearly beaten by a guy shooting a 7-shot .357 revolver.  But the revolver shooter was almost Jerry Miculek in speed.

Never Assume

When I read posts saying, "I am buying a 1911," I notice that everyone assumes the poster means something in .45 ACP.

But that's not always true.

Since 1929 1911 can also mean .38 Super.  Arguably superior to .45 when it comes to slaying bowling pins.

That Colt is one of my most favorite pistols.

Who Put The Ape In Appalling?

I recently found out that the SIG P220 was available in .38 Super.

The single example I found on Gunbroker is going went for $1,500 $1,675.  Magazines are over $150!

I don't think I will be getting an example, despite being vested in the caliber already.

It'd be cool though.

Definitely making a character with one in that caliber on the off chance that I ever get to play, rather than GM again.

PS: I think Glock is missing an untapped market of dozens of people not offering a .38 Super.  Just sayin'!  They could make tens of dollars!

Pinnacle

I am sitting here thinking heresy.

That the ultimate development of the 1911 pattern occurred in 1926 when they chambered it in .38 caliber.

The penultimate development were the changes from the M1911 to M1911A1.

Going back to flat mainspring housings and long triggers is retrograde.

Changing the dimensions isn't all bad, but it's not necessarily good.

But I dearly love my Gov't Model in .38 Super.

Even if I don't pack it in favor of lighter guns.

But I notice that The Beast is not near so carry unfriendly as The Precious was.  Being intended for use by a uniformed officer wearing a gun-belt tends to leave more room for IWB carry.  I have several excellent holsters for a 1911, so I might just start packing it again and get some yellowing on my pig-tooth ivory.

Years Of 1911

My first encounter with an M1911A1 was in the file cabinet my dad had in the basement.

I think it was more hidden from my mother than me.  I was, maybe, eight when I found it.

Years passed and I forgot that pistol.

My next encounter was in the Army in 1987 and we trained on them in OSUT then I was issued one at my line unit in early 1988.  Serial number 1164935; just in case you run across it.

When I got out I was all into 9mm thanks to the game stats from Twilight: 2000 and GURPS.

However, the gun I'd found in that file cabinet returned to my life.

In March of 1991 my dad bribed me to visit him by offering me that Remington-Rand M1911A1.  I managed to hang on to it for a very short time and ended up trading favors to get it back just to swap it for my Glock 21.  I regret all this horse trading and will keep that Glock 21 to my grave just to underscore my stupidity.

I, briefly, owned a stainless AMT Hardballer from September 1993 to November 1995.  I never warmed to it.

I didn't own another 1911 until December 2006 when I got a Springfield USGI.  I hung onto that one until I got my CMP M1911A1 and let it go in May 2019.  There's no room for two nostalgia purchases and a genuine USGI gun supplants a new made gun from Geneseo, Illinois.

The next 1911 is a Colt Gov't Model in .38 Super that I got in December 2012.  I've modded it a bit.  I put a short trigger, arched mainspring housing, ivory grips and arched mainspring housing with lanyard loop in it since.  It's a tack-driver and I can no longer bring it to the bowling pin shoots at Florida Firearms Academy.  I beat the guy with a Glock 17 and red-dot!  TWICE!

The CMP M1911A1 entered the fold in February 2019 and it still resides in the gun safe.

The Potential

S&W has just released the M&P in 10mm.

I have a case of kinda-wants.

But an alternative that's just as alluring to me has occurred.

.38 Super.

It needs a pistol that takes the longer overall length that .45 ACP and 10mm have.

L -> R: .45 ACP, .38 Super, 10mm Auto

Glock and S&W both make a .45/10mm versions of their plastic fantastic pistols now.

There's no reason that they don't make a .38 Super variation except a perceived lack of interest.  Really just need a new barrel and magazine.

I think I shall write a letter or an email.

I think a .38 Super M&P would be delightful as the .45 version fits my hand well.

No No NO!

Looking around just to test the air about prices on the "missing" early Wonder-9; the CZ75.

I discovered that Tanfoglio made a copy of the Cz in .38 Super.

Darn it.

I like my .38 Super 1911.  It'd be fun to have a second pistol in the caliber.

In Between

I've also packed .38 Super in the form of a Colt Government Model in the same Miami Classic II as I used for the Springfield 1911 A1 USGI.

They're externally identical, after all.

I got the Miami Classic rig I used for the M&P 45C for an M&P 9.

I've considered trying an M&P 9C since the 45C totes just a bit better than the full-size 9.

What really amazes me about this entire carry saga is, with the exception of exchanging the Springfield 1911 A1 USGI for a genuine USGI M1911A1; I still own all of them.

I should also mention my first legal carry gun.  It was my Grampa's business defense gun.

H&R Automatic in .32... it could be .32 H&R or .32 S&W Long.  Hard to tell.

I tucked it in, cross draw, in an Uncle Mike's shitty nylon IWB pouch-like holster.  It rode pretty comfortably there too.

As a talisman against criminals, it's not too shabby.  For actual use...

Medical technology advanced to the point where slow .32 rounds don't assure the criminal shot with one a lingering, painful, death from infection.  When death by bacteria was a likely end to being shot by anything even a .25 ACP is scary.

Sulfa drugs and penicillin changed everything.

Government Model Super 38 vs M&P 45C

We covered .45 vs .45 here.

We've even talked about 9mm vs .45 ACP.

But what about a 1911 in .38 Super vs a S&W M&P 45C?

Again, the M&P is 2 lb. loaded.  The Gov't Model is 2.8 lb.

Reloads for the M&P are 0.5 lb.  The Gov't Model are 0.4 lb.

M&P has 8+1 shots.  Super 38 has 9+1.

45C does 2d-1 pi+ per round.  Super does 3d-1 pi.

With hollow points this increases to 2d-1(0.5) pi++ and 3d-1(0.5) pi+

Average damage is 10 for .45 ACP and 12 for .38 Super.

90 points downrange for the Smith, 120 for the Colt.

The blued steel 1911 has soul; an elegant weapon for a more civilized time.

The plastic fantastic has durability and a brutish aesthetic appropriate to the primitive savagery of today.

Punching Protection

The Colt Super 38 became popular in the late 20's because of its reputation at punching car doors and what concealable body armor there was.

A silk vest has DR 4/2* (flexible, higher DR against piercing and cutting, lower against everything else).

Note: every ten points of damage stopped by flexible armor will impart 1 cr damage to the wearer if the round doesn't otherwise penetrate.

A car door has DR 8.

.38 Super's 3d-1 pi's average hit is going to penetrate either.  Getting 0-9 (avg 1) through the door; 0-15 (avg 5) through the vest.

This compares to the very common .38 Special's 2d pi doing 0-4 (avg 0) against the door and 0-8 (avg 3) through the vest.

.45 Auto from a Thompson does 2d+1 pi+ and gets 0-5 (avg 0) through the door which becomes 0-7 (avg 0) to the torso of the occupant.  More gets through the vest doing 0-13 (avg 6).

The Super 38 is a lot easier to hide than a Thompson.

A .45 Government Model's 2d pi does 0-6 (avg 0) to the occupant of the car and 0-12 (avg 4) to the wearer of the vest.

Modern ammo against a modern car or vest...

Cars got easier to shoot into.  Vests got harder.

A modern car door, thanks to making them lighter and lighter to serve the Gods of the EPA only gets a DR of 3 unless you roll a 1 out of six and manage to hit the DR 10 crash-bar.

A concealable vest gives DR 12/5*.

Hardly anyone packs ball anymore so the 2d+2(0.5) pi+ of hollow-point 9x19mm does 0-0 (avg 0) to a cop's vest.  Ghetto Gary firing cheap, Wal Mart Blazer with its 2d+2 pi is more likely to penetrate the vest, but still only gets a 0-2 (avg 0).

.45 ACP isn't going to hurt the cop unless they do enough to score some blunt trauma.

The ubiquitous 16" AR does 4d+2 pi.  Bog standard 55gr ball is doing 0-14 (avg 4) through that vest.  Difficult to come by M955 does 4d+2(2) pi-; doing 0-10 (avg 5).

Some Randy the Redneck and his .30-06 and 7d pi will punch 0-30 (avg 12) with practice ammo and 0-27 (avg 0) with 7d(0.5) pi+ soft points.  Barrel destroying surplus M2 "black-tip" and its 5d(2) pi- does 0-12 (avg 5).

The earlier version of the concealable vest only get DR 8/2*.  Still a common vest because it's much cheaper than the one with better protection.

Still basically immune to hollow point 9mm and ball 45.  Ball 9mm will do 0-6 (avg 0).  The AR will get 0-18 (avg 8) with ball and 1-11 (avg 6) with tungsten core.  30-06 will do 0-34 (avg 16) with FMJ, 0-39 (avg 7) with huntin' ammo and 1-13 (avg 10) with AP.

People Laughed

Some laughed at me when I bought the guns, but I can still get ammo at normal prices.

.38 Super and .270 Winchester are still in stock at pre-Wu Ping Cough / pre-BLM prices.

While the lack of rounds is a bit of concern, my Gov't Model was banned from two bowling pin matches because I kept winning.

I've gotten all five rounds touching at 100 yards with the Savage.

I shoot them well, what can I say?

Always keep a brace of guns in an oddball, but still produced, caliber just in case the popular stuff gets hard to find.

At Last My Hand Is Whole

My .38 Super Government Model now has a lanyard loop and a proper, metal, mainspring housing!

It's an Evolution Gun Works GI Arched Mainspring Housing Blue w/Lanyard Loop Holes p/n 11441.

Not just metal, but milled bar-stock instead of cast.

Cast would have meant the ring would also be cast, and those are, reportedly, fragile.

This ring is pinned, as it should be.

Now I can open bottles!

There's a down-side, the loaded weight went from 2.6 to 2.8 pounds.