Make Up Your Damn Mind

Do not tell me that there's nothing we can do about Islam while you attempt to eradicate all mention of Christianity from any place not actually owned by a Christian church.

Anti-Theism is not the same thing as Atheism.

Do not preach to me about the horrors of Christianity while ignoring those of Islam. Especially when the Christian horrors are no longer in living memory and there's video of the Islamic.

A nativity scene is not equivalent to an honor killing.

I am also becoming increasingly convinced that despite the 1st amendment, the founders clearly intended the USA to be Christian and for the most part it still is. I am also becoming convinced that our Christian based culture can tolerate a certain, but finite and small, number of who are not. Atheists, like me, are essentially free-riding on the cultural norms that are generated by Christianity. Because we are free-riding we should accord them a bit more respect and a tad more latitude than the organized anti-theism groups have been showing. Those same groups need to start confronting other religions too, and I don't care if it's Islam, Judaism, Hindu or Buddhism.

Americans need to start asserting our culture on those who come to live here from a different culture.

American culture might be founded in Christianity, but it includes things like titty bars. Christians would be well advised to remember that. We are christian based, but not a theocracy. If you don't like strip joints, convince your daughters it's a bad idea to work there and don't patronize it. And that's all you get to do.

Atheists; if they leave the titty bar alone, you should let the nativity scene on the court steps alone.

Deal?

I just hate when people ignore history.

The culture in the US is based on Christianity. I've noticed, for the most part, that Christians are extremely tolerant of those of us who are not. Eliminating their influence from every aspect of our culture seems a mistake and since nature abhors a vacuum; something else will rise to fill it in. Atheists don't bring a culture to the table. They, in fact, actively reject the culture that spawned them and it's going to hurt the US.

I mentioned that our culture can handle a small, finite number of people who are members of this culture without being part of the actual religion.

I am an Atheist. I am not threatened by a creche on the court house lawn. I have never felt that such a display was a State endorsement of religion. Especially since such displays are completely funded by the people who construct them, all the city or county is contributing is space.

I think you are right in there would be fewer militant atheists if there were fewer militant Christians. I know that FuzzyGeff and I were defined about faith in a lot of ways because of the efforts of Boke Desmond. He felt that he should be saving us sinning D&D players. He was also an idiot; making us wonder if all people of faith were also idiots.

My point is the culture that made this nation great is Christian. To eliminate Christianity completely from it will also destroy it. I don't believe the culture that would replace it will be near so tolerant of non-believers.

Too Subtle

I am sometimes too subtle.

I sometimes reference inside jokes from meatspace that my readers have never seen.

So I will ruin the joke by explaining it.

Christianity has committed more evil than Satanism.

That's because Satanism has done nothing.

That's the joke, cue Rainier Wolfcastle meme.

There's a lot of evil attributed to Satan, but it's never actually a Satanist.  I do not deny it was evil, I only contest that it was Satanism.

The flip side is that Christianity has done a lot of good.

Sometimes inadvertently, but still on the good side of the ledger.

But there's a lot of Christians out there doing evil who're going to be shocked to find themselves in Hell come The Day if it pans out their imaginary friend isn't imaginary.

There's piles of examples of nominally Christian people using scripture to justify their misdeeds.

Satanism?

Satanists?

Not so much.

The few prominent Satanists really don't push the religion bit that much and go about their lives.  And go about their lives not doing evil...  One's a painter of nudie girls and takes pictures of nekkid wimmins that would be at home at Irish's.

So, in the future, don't get too wrapped around the axle when I make a sweeping hyperbole like that.

Mono

D&D is, normally, set in a myth parallel of medieval times.

Something that medieval times has is the rise of Christianity supplanting, or having supplanted the local polytheism.

Especially with the notes about Clerics mentioning the religious knight model, I wonder if I can get away with just having a single God.

When I remember that the difference between good and evil in AD&D is simply how selfish you are and not whether you're actually a bad person, both an evil and good cleric could be friends and worship at the same altar.

One thing that probably wouldn't happen in a world where God grants such overt power is the schism between Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which are, purportedly, the same deity.

Or would it?  God choosing to only speak through His (Her?) priesthood and prophets would lead to human interpretation of Their Word.

On the plus side, a priest that strays too far from The Word will lose their powers. 

Not Subtle

I'll grind a gear here.

Satanism has something in common with Libertarianism.

Most of the people who say they're one aren't accomplishing what they think they are.

The militant versions most especially.

I should include Atheists here too.  Which grinds my gears because as someone who merely believes there is no God, the people who wanna force that view onto others pisses me right the fuck off!

I've known a few people of all three stripes and once you talk to them for a while you find that the real goal is for someone to pay attention to them and being vocally different was the only thing they could come up with.

They also get mad at you when you disengage once you've made this discovery.

Yes, I am aware that blogging is seeking attention by being vocally different...  Would you like a black fly with your chardonnay?

This does not mean that:

There are no people who deeply believe in and worship Satan.

There are no people who fervently adhere to the idea of self ownership and the non-aggression principle.

There are no people who simply don't believe in a non-corporeal entity guiding our lives.

There are no people who write on the internet who do so to clear their own minds.

It's just that the people who you KNOW are Satanists/Libertarians/Atheists just don't seem to ever talk about anything else or do much of anything to change the world.

Aside: If you're into freedom and liberty, it's hard to reconcile with the idea that there's a God who is your Master in the same vein as a feudal lord whom you owe birthright fealty.  At best.  At worst He is Master and you are His slave.  I know that this idea pisses Christians off.  I've been, repeatedly, told so by angry Christians.

The number one religion for changing the world and getting shit done has been Christianity.

It's a matter of fact.

The number one driver of freedom and liberty was a group of Christians (who cheerfully let a couple of Atheists in their midst while making the rules).  These people even warned that what they were doing required a moral people to do it.

Even if there's no imaginary friend, following the Christian moral template doesn't lead you too far wrong in your dealings with other people.

Because of Christianity, those morals are the framework of Western Civ and it's accomplished a lot when allowed to function and we worry more about the morality than the source of the morals.

PS: Aesop, your deleted reply from the other thread is on topic here.  Recreate it and it will stand.

Let The Liberal Heads Explode

A not very reliable news source has leaked that The US Supreme Court has the votes to repeal Roe v Wade.

The leak consists of an opinion authored by Justice Alito.

Good! I says.

Roe v Wade is bad law.

It is emanations and penumbras and not a solid case.

It's making shit up, whole cloth, that isn't actually in the Constitution and getting the result desired.

Allowing abortions because a right to privacy?  I'm not finding it in the 4th Amendment.

A better case would have been under 9th or 10th Amendment grounds... mostly 9th after the 14th.

But since all three branches have been actively eroding the 9th and 10th amendments for more than a century, nobody wants to even try to make a landmark case from there.

They should.

The text of The Constitution was supposed to be plain-text.  It does what it says, it says what it does.

The list of things that the Federal government is allowed to do is plainly stated and not very long.  This short list is further restricted by The Bill of Rights.  The 9th and 10th Amendments were supposed to be the most brutally restricting amendments to Federal power.  They're literally, "unless we said you could, you can't," clauses.

The individual state constitutions are supposed to be similarly written and operated.

There's a whole lot of how things are done every day in America that should not be.

That we've been doing it this way for a long time makes me think, "justice delayed is justice denied," rather than saying that "well we've done it so long it will be hard to change..."

So it will be difficult!  Let's get to work!

PS - Pro-Life People: Please be to showing me where the text says Government was empowered to make any laws concerning abortion.  Bearing in mind that you, too, cannot use emanations and penumbras to make your case either.  Especially sticky for you is that 1st Amendment "freedom of religion" thing and Christianity having a religious position on the topic.  As soon as God enters the frame, Government is forbidden to act on it.  You have to sell your position from a secular direction without evoking God or quoting The Bible.  And some of y'all just can't do it.

PPS - That The Court is even, allegedly, talking about it is probably another example of liberals not taking the win and shutting up.  Roe legalized abortions before a certain point in the pregnancy but allowed restrictions later in the term because as the fetus gets further along it gets more baby-like and thus more recognizably human.  The liberals didn't accept the win for where nearly all abortions occur and are now in danger of losing the "right" altogether.  Again.

PPPS - Even with a full ban on abortion, Liberals, you still get a choice.  You can CHOOSE to use an aspirin for birth control and suddenly you're not getting pregnant and thus not needing the procedure.

Interesting Story

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794&page=3

I really don't care if someone I intend to shoot is offended by my beliefs, once I am to the point of shooting someone, I their opinion on everything no longer matters.

I cannot help but to think that if there was a PBUH on the optic there would not be a single news story covering it even if the owners of Trijicon bought full page ads bragging about it.

I also don't think this is a separation of church and state issue. This is part of the ongoing "We must eliminate all mention of Christianity while ignoring mention of all others in the process of making Atheism the State Church."

The manufacturer puts those little coded messages on the scopes. The military didn't demand they be there. This is not the government demanding that we worship a Christian God. This is a waste of time worrying about tangential religious affiliation while ignoring the active recruitment of terrorist within the ranks of our own military. Whisky Tango Foxtrot Over.

This is as close to the US Government creating a Christian Theocracy as allowing government funded roads to lead to churches. Or is the ACLU against public funding of roadways that are adjacent to churches?

Critical Thinking

I even dug up my book for this.

The book spends a chapter saying it, so it's hard to gel down to a small thought.

To be doing critical thinking right, you have to read to opposition's material.

That means that even if you're an atheist, you have to read the believer's crap if you are going to be debating the topic. If you don't read it then you are a closed minded zealot, and not worth debating with because there's no chance of changing your mind. You are not debating, you are recruiting; there's a world of difference.

And what are we really all worked up about here Atheists? Manger scene on public property? Teaching that despite appearances to the contrary, there might have been divine creation? What harm do these things really do? You are taking the position that you are the rational, thinking side on this, how were you harmed?

While we're vaguely on the topic of what schools are teaching, the whole Creationism debate takes a lot of moral capital away from some much more important battles. For example; Why don't the schools teach civics? Why don't they teach personal finance? Why do we have to pay for the state school even if our children are enrolled in a school that is decidedly religious? Why does that parochial school have to teach evolution when the state funded one doesn't have to teach creation?

That raises some interesting questions in my mind too. A parochial school will have a position on creation that will be inline with their religion; that position could very well deny evolution.

To have religious freedom, YOU HAVE TO LET THEM DENY IT AND TEACH IT LIKE IT WAS THE TRUTH!

I am getting really fed up with people demanding freedom by demanding other people be less free.

There are some serious warts with freedom, real freedom.

Real freedom means I can refuse to serve blacks at my restaurant because I am a racist. Real freedom means I can allow my customers to smoke. Real freedom means that I can hire a man for a job over a woman because I think he'd fit in with my current employees better than the, on paper, more qualified female.

We're not ready for that, are we? The cure for smoking is to allow the customers to decide. If the businesses get enough business to stay open, then they do. If you can convince enough smokers to boycott the place until it goes under, good for you! But bringing in the state to fight your battle because there are more than enough smokers to float a business...

It became clear that there were more than enough smokers and people who didn't care about the smoke that no business was going to go smoke free for economic reasons. The anti-smoking crowd decided that their right to eat out trumped the smokers and restaurant owners rights to have a smoking section. Then they put the full power of the state behind their opinion. Freedom! Freedom! Rah rah rah! Um, wait a second, how is it freedom to be dictated to by the state about what I can and cannot do? I wasn't forcing the non-smoker to come eat here, tell me again how I infringed on their rights?

Atheists, take note, you are using almost identical arguments about mangers as the anti-smokers used about smoking sections. You do not sound clever or smart when you go on and on about your religion. And you have chosen a religion. And you are just as tedious in your attempts to convince me as the Jehova's Witnesses at my door.

I will toss one bone. 1st amendment says no state religion. 14th amendment says that applies to lower government as well as the federal. That means a manger scene on the courthouse lawn can be read as an endorsement of Christianity, so it's not allowed unless every other religion is allowed to put their holy symbols up too.

It seems the real cure to the situation is to have a whole lot less state. No state schools, no chance the state is teaching something forbidden by the Constitution or infringing on my rights to worship in the fashion of my choosing.

YOUR God, YOUR Religion

Ace of Spades has a post complaining about the loss of meaning in Christian and Jewish traditions.

OK.

Except I don't believe in your imaginary friend.

Even if He were real I'd reject Him because He demands you be a happy slave to Him.  Never mind the sanctimonious pricks I'd have to share Heaven with if I repented and became a happy slave to God...

Should my lack of belief matter to someone who does have Faith and believes?

Nope.

Their belief does not require my approval, nor does my lack of faith demand theirs.

Where I object to this screed is the implicit blame is on people outside his faith for the loss of meaning in the Christian and Jewish traditions.

Why is y'all's lack of faith someone else's fault?

Losing your faith is on you.  I've read your book.

You want those traditions to mean something, they have to mean something to YOU and it doesn't matter what they mean to anyone else.

If others participating in a watered down version of your tradition dilutes the meaning to you, it's your fault not theirs.  Deal with it.

If only you had a tome of guiding principles and people who dedicate their lives to helping you find Faith and remain faithful... Oh, wait.

But if you're going to drag Christmas and Easter into it and bitch about how others ruined the traditions of the religion...  Christianity stole and rebranded those holy days from the Pagans they were trying to convert as a marketing deal.

A -> B -> C

I might even pop some popcorn for this.

The media often slams on Christians for being backward and generally worthless.

President Obama has been "accused" of being Muslim.

"Oh no!  He's a Christian!" they say as they leap to his defense.

I wonder if they noticed they just elevated Christianity over Islam.

The ever more sensitive to ever smaller slights people most certainly will have noticed.

I wonder what they will do?

15 Questions For Atheists

If you really want to see them and responses, hit up Bing or Google.

I'm an atheist because I can't find the divine in anything I see.  Sorry.  I could accept that God made the world exactly as it appears, age and everything, via some miracle; but the scriptures I've read contraindicate that.

However no single agent made me doubt Christianity more than Boak Desmond (not sure how to spell his name).

He confronted our satan worship weekly at the ISU Memorial Union for almost a year.  We were playing table-top role playing games like Twilight 2000 and Traveller.  But to him they were all Dungeons and Dragons and therefore satan.

What he became was an object of ridicule for us in his fervent attempts to save our souls from damnation via six sided dice.

One confrontation is vivid.  We were doing our normal thing when he started and FuzzyGeff announces to the room that he'd recently discovered Faith too!  Desmond was overjoyed!

The joy was short lived as Geff led him down several points where their faiths agreed and the joy was destroyed when Geff exclaims, "Isn't it wonderful to be held to the bosom of Odin?"

"Odin?" Boak says?

"Yes!  May he strike us dead with lightning if I am lying!"

Geff delivered that line with such conviction that Boak actually glanced at the ceiling and looked nervous.

We also never saw him again.

Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie! Je Suis Arme!

Quote of the day. In the comments.

Another quote, this one from a movie, "I don't wanna get killed for lack of shootin' back!"  A film that also demonstrates the dangers of gun control.

I tend to not make fun of Islam.  I worry about some of the adherents, and I worry that our idiotic immigration policies will allow those adherents to reach some sort of critical mass that makes them a dangerous problem.

Still,I am a lot more worried, day to day, about the run of the mill criminal than Islamic terrorists.

Sooner or later, western civ. is going to wake back up and assert itself again. The longer it waits, the bloodier the awakening will be.  Ironically, it's likely to be the everyday criminal who wakes western society to the point where Islam becomes as innocuous as Christianity or Judaism.

As Tam has said (three quotes in one post!) "The EUtopians may seem all soft, docile, and toothless right now, but the recent immigrant welfare sponge class is playing with fire here. Euros have a proven zero-to-jackboots time lower than just about anybody on the planet. Get Gunter or Pierre all backed into a corner and feeling existentially threatened and you'll be wishing you hadn't, faster than you can say "Arbeit Macht Frei"."  Americans go a bit slower, but trend towards solutions that stick once we're riled up.  Grab a German or French historian and ask them about how their national characters have been altered since WW2.  The changes to Japan are more overt.

Skinhead

I started shaving my head when it became obvious that I was not going to be going bald in a dignified manner.

My pattern of baldness is the kind where it will look like I'm trying to hide it with a comb-over even if I do nothing.

It's a small vanity.

But it has gotten me charged with racism a couple of times.

Particularly antisemitism.

Um...  Nope, it's just a hairstyle.

Especially when I regard this, "If the dismissal of Jewish scientists means the annihilation of contemporary German science, then we shall do without science for a few years." as one of the stupidest statements of all time.

And mining Hitler quotes for "stupidest" is hard fucking work; because the man was a font of stupid shit.

Aside:  Hitler also said, "The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble."  That sure sounds familiar and contemporary, don't it?

I like science.

Without science we don't get so many things that make everyday life so much better.

I happen to like indoor plumbing, electricity and the internet.  Science, Engineering and Industry.

Sciences that are chock-a-block with "untermensch".

But then, I celebrate individual accomplishment rather than racial attribution.

Intent

Because of anti-Christian bigots pretending they are atheists I got really interested in crosses on in public spaces.

It started with the crosses that stand over Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery.

I was told that no government monies could be spent on such things because of the first amendment and the separation of church and state.

I read the first amendment carefully and it doesn't include that phrase.  That phrase is part of a single letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association.

We in the gun rights community talk a great deal about the injustices derived from the penumbras generated by adding words to the constitution.  Why do so many of us ignore this?

What the first amendment says about religion is the Federal government is not allowed to establish a state religion and that it may not forbid the people from worshipping as we will.

The fourteenth amendment seems to apply the prohibitions on government found in the Bill of Rights to the states and perhaps to local governments as well.

What does all that mean?  Did you know that the authors of the constitution and all of those amendments?  They do say what they intended.

To be frank, Jefferson is wrong.  It's not surprising, he was out of step with the other authors quite frequently, and to our benefit most of the time.

What was intended?

It was intended that if the population of a town was so incensed by the presence of a religious symbol placed in the public square that they should vote out the government officials who committed this egregious offense and replace them with persons more like minded.  The intent was not to shield a teeny minority increasingly sensitive to any slight.  The intent was not for the judicial branch usurp and override the electoral process when such a small group disagreed with the majority in an election.

This intent would not be clouded except for the need to have passed the 14th amendment.  The intent of the 14th amendment was to finally ram home to the former Confederate States that they'd lost the war and that people with dark brown skin and kinky hair were free and equal citizens of the restored United States.  That was the sole intent of the 14th amendment.  The authors would be shocked to see their amendment twisted to remove a manger scene from the courtyard.

Over and over in my reading I find that the people who founded this nation intended us to be informed and to use our guaranteed rights to elect people to provide for our collective interests while also guarding our liberties.  Judges were to be the referees, not writers of the rules or players in the game.

If you don't like seeing a cross on top of a water tower or a baby Jesus in the city courtyard, talk to your city council.  If they ignore you, find someone to vote for who won't.  Run yourself if it means so much to you.  But until they declare that Christianity is the official religion of Yourtown USA and require you to attend services on Sunday, they have not abridged your rights in the slightest according to the protections of the 1st amendment.

Abortion

Roe v Wade was incorrectly decided.

There, I said it.

But it's almost the correct decision!

Pulling a right to an abortion out of some vague penumbra of a right to privacy attached to the 4th Amendment?

Bullshit.

Saying the Federal Government has been given no power whatsoever about abortions and its a state matter under the 10th amendment?  Correct.

Saying the 9th Amendment protects rights not mentioned already and that Texas' own constitution gives no power to regulate abortions?  Also correct.

Thus a right to an abortion because nobody actually empowered the governments to regulate them.

If you want to talk the talk of restoring constitutional government, you're going to hit walls like this where you're going to need to amend the thing before the government has the powers to do what you want them to do.

Also, considering how closely tied anti-abortion has become to Christianity, there's a strong 1st Amendment argument against the government having any authority here because that would be a State endorsement of one religion's view on the topic.

It's quite sobering to look at the Constitution and see exactly how little power it actually gives the Federal Government.  Then looking at the State Constitutions and seeing they have similarly small grants of power for the most part.

Then you look at the powers actually exercised...  Yes, Virginia, nearly everything Government does is illegitimate and illegal.  Including how the Supreme Court operates, look it up!

Bonus round:  Even if the States granted themselves massive new powers amending the state constitutions (Florida adds several amendments every year by voter referendum) everyone forgets what the 14th Amendment actually says.  The 14th was supposed to be a massive bitch slap to the states and imposing much of the limitations on Federal power to the states.  Slaughterhouse fucked that up...

Except I CAN Do The Math

Getting up on your soapbox and condemning every homosexual for when a child molester, who happens to be gay, is exactly like condemning every gun owner for a mass shooting.

EXACTLY.

A statistical fact is the vast majority of child molesters are some kind of gay.

And they are still a vanishingly small percentage of homosexuals.

I don't remember the name for it but it's a statistics phenomenon where a subset appears larger than it is because it's part of a small set of numbers.

But the people up on said soapbox don't care.

They're approaching it from a pre-condemnation of Teh Gheys because they have an invisible friend whose employees can't read the book he "wrote."

The crime of pederasty is their excuse to sermonize against Teh Gheys.

Let me do the reading for you.

That section condemning Teh Gheys is condemning pederasts; not Teh Gheys.  You know, the assholes that triggered the sermon against Teh Gheys?

You wanna condemn pederasts?  I'm right there with you.

You wanna blame all homosexuals for the crimes of pederasts?  You're on your own and I stand against you.

Never mind that your invisible friend reserves judgement for themselves.  That's in your book too, or did you miss that part like you missed that He's fine with buggery as long as it isn't with kids.

I should dig it up again.

The idea that being gay is against God is more recent than a lot of people realize and it's from cultural norms which were subsumed into Christianity.

Most of the traction comes from a different section of Your Invisible Friend's Guide To Life.  "Be fruitful and multiply," or some variation on that.

Homosexuality leads to not porking out kids, and He wants us to have babies.  Flip side, as long as you're leaving kids all over the place, there's no problem with Ghey secks.

But most people are nearly completely ignorant of their own theology and are entirely too trusting of the clergy to interpret their book for them.

Schism

No, you idiot, it is not inconsistent of Ted Cruz to condemn something The Pope said while also expressing his Christian beliefs.

Senator Cruz isn't Catholic.

The Pope is the head of The Catholic Church.

Protestants, like Southern Baptists, are free to ignore and criticize The Pope.  He's merely the leader of a sect of Christianity that's already wrong in some way, so why expect him to be right about it now?

FFRF FUCK OFF

You want to know something you fuckwads?

This is America and we put crosses on memorials.

Just like a skull and crossbones means poison today and not pirate; a cross does not denote religious affiliation on a veteran's memorial.

How do I know?

HAVE YOU MISERABLE WASTES OF WATER AND TRACE ELEMENTS EVER BOTHERED TO ASK US WHAT THAT CROSS MEANS AND WHAT THE MEMORIAL IS DEDICATED TO?

Cue cricket.

Actually, it did get asked once and you flat you said you were lied to.

Let's get to the core issue.  What that cross means to YOU is Christianity, not me.  Not my fellows.  Not most Americans.

The person with a problem is you.

Just like I demand that immigrants to this nation become Americans, I expect people born here to be Americans as well.  It's clear you aren't familiar with the culture you're living in.

So, go die in a fire you pricks.  I'll even give you a gallon of gas and a road flare if you don't have your own.  But kill yourselves.  Emulate the followers of Rev Jim Jones and drink cyanide laced bargain not-Kool-Aid® beverage.

The world will be a better place without you!

If you're a member of this shitheel organization and you're reading this, don't bother replying; just commit suicide and do some damn good for once in your misbegotten life.

PS: You're fucking cowards too.  Not one instance where you confront Muslims that I can find.  Fucking bullies only pick on people they know won't fight back.

Maybe Not For YOUR Sins

I saw a headline that said, "The Easter Bunny didn't die for our sins nor did he rise from the dead."

Well, not with that attitude, He won't.

Let's be a bit historical here and admit that Easter is happening at the time of year it happens because Christianity was converting the heathens who had fertility celebrations in the spring.

Rabbits are symbols of fertility.

So, while The Easter Bunny did not die for our sins, He sure did pick when Jesus died and was reborn, literally centuries after his execution.

Or at least when the Church decided it would be celebrated.

There's a strong argument to be made that the scheduling of Passover influenced the timing of Easter as well.  Converting Jews was also something the Church wanted.

But it is true that The Easter Bunny did not die for our sins.  That's not His job.

His job is to make us fertile and bountiful.  By dying for the supper table.