Getting a stout lesson in how things really work from Tam and Robert! Both of whom have worked or are working in retail gun sales.
Good.
I had a professor once who said that you don't really know if you've reached a sound conclusion until you've expressed it to someone else.
I was almost kinda close about the 4473 being registration.
I forgot a key part: ATF has to start with a serial number, make and model. You might be able to infer a make and model from the serial alone since there's some pattern to how some makers assign them; but it's no guarantee.
For them to figure out that I owned a SIG P238 they have to get to the 4473 I filled out at the gun show, or they need to see it in my possession. The path to that 4473 is swift, but unlikely.
There might be some legitimate concern about the records from folded gun shops that have to be turned into ATF. Nobody seems to know firmly what happens to them. If those turned in records are computerized then they have a shitty ersatz and incomplete registration of gun owners (or at least of gun buyers). I dimly recall a rash of violations where the ATF took the license of a shop and its attendant records while nearly simultaneously approving a new license. Dim enough that I can't recall if it's be debunked or confirmed.
In all likelihood the reporter's phrasing that got the bee under my bonnet was the reported thinking "traced to" and "registered to" were synonymous.
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"The path to that 4473 is swift, but unlikely." *
ReplyDeleteActually, it's very likely. Every time a gun changes hands from the manufacturer t the final customer, there is a paper trail they can follow. We are required to keep a record called a "bound book". Every gun that comes into our possession has to be logged in. They are listed by, Manufacturer, model, serial number, type (pistol, rifle, shotgun or other) caliber and where it came from. When you purchase it, the book is updated to show where that gun has gone. I have my 4473's numbered and in my book, I put your name and the number off of the 4473. When ATF traces a gun, they start with the manufacturer. From there they go to the distributor, who then sends them to me. I usually get a phone call and they give me the particulars of the gun. Since the first entry in my book is the manufacturer, that narrows my search. I then check the serial number against my records. When I find that, I see your name and the number of the 4473. I go to the files and pull it and call ATF back with your info.
It sounds a lot more complicated that it really is. You just have to remember that every step a gun takes from the manufacturer to the end user, there is a record of everyone that has owned it. Manufacturer, distributor, dealer and you. Of course you decide you don't like your new banger, you decide to sell it. That's pretty much where they fall out of the system unless you keep sales receipts with names and addresses. There are a few states that require a background check between private sellers, but most don't. I know here in Iowa, if you sell someone a handgun, they are supposed to have either a permit to purchase or a carry permit. Long guns don't have that restriction. You can bet that there are some handguns changing hands out there without the paperwork and are never used in a crime.
* this is what happens when I wake up in the middle of the night. I get long winded.
Being a Cruffler, I too have a bound book! So far it's only got a single outgoing entry.
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean by unlikely is they are not going to be cataloging the contents of my house based on the 4473's I've filled out. By swift I mean that once they've got a make, model and serial it doesn't take very long at all to get to the last point of sale.
I am curious about how a trace deals with used guns. The paper trail is Maker, distributor(s), FFL, customer(s), FFL, customer. How would they know to call the FFL that bought it from the end user(s) to ask about it?
The trail usually goes cold with the first customer, unless they keep unusually good records, reported it stolen, or live in a state with a state-level registration scheme.
ReplyDeleteAs far as guns I've bought and then sold? I probably couldn't tell you where 90% of them went if you put a blowtorch to my feet. I've been in the gun collecting hobby a long time and have sold a bunch over the years. Usually to a store or a friend, rather than to Joe Stranger in a parking lot, but still, asking me what I did with a specific gun is unlikely to bear fruit.
"Do you still have the Glock, Ms. K?"
"Which Glock? I've owned ten."
"The 23."
"Well that narrows it down to five."
"The one you bought from Forsyth Co. Pawn."
"Okay, four."
Something else to think about. Let's say the 4473 is the "Low Road" to registration. But how about the "High Road"? It's your Credit Card. I believe Treasury has the authority to go into any business and check the books. I know the IRS can do it, to see if they got any Taxes that were due them. So if they want to hit the local Mountain of Geese and see who bought what, it's all on file. Or the other way down that road is if they run your Credit/Debit/Bank Cards to see what purchases you've made. And if they see something that you bought at the Mountain of Geese that cost $499.95 plus tax, well, they just see what was sold at that time that cost that amount, like a Glock 23. Keep in mind, laws that were written to prevent BATFE from setting up Registration don't apply to other Federales. I believe that's one way McVeigh was prosecuted for OKC. They had the Store Receipts from the Fertilizer Place. Something to think about.
ReplyDeleteI have perfectly legitimate uses for those chemicals, seeds, PVC tubing and plutonium.
DeleteCredit/debit card processing doesn't work that way, FWIW.
Delete