22 November 2014

More On Stoner 63 Weights

What I cannot find is a complete break-down of what things weigh.

As I said before, I extrapolated the weights of some parts.

What would be nice is to have how much the common parts weigh so the intrepid player can have the parts for a different configuration in their pack.

Having the conversion parts at the ready is kind of a fool's errand.

There are three sight sets: rifle/carbine, belt feed and top feed.  There are two handguards: rifle/carbine and belt/top feed.

The folding stock fits on the belt/top configurations, but will block the ejection port on the top feed and can't be locked folded on the belt feed because it hits the box/drum.

There are five barrels.  Rifle, carbine, top feed (automatic rifle), short belt (commando) and long belt (LMG).  Carrying a spare barrel makes some player character sense because it changes the bulk but the commando MG barrel has an increased chance for malf.

The real advantage that the design seems to have is the common core of the gun is the same, thus cheaper for the Army and simpler for the armorer.

I also discovered that M numbers were assigned thanks to wikipedia.

XM22 is the rifle, XM23 is the carbine, XM207 is the LMG.  E1 is added for 63A and E2 for 1:9 twist barrels...

That last is interesting.  We didn't start thinking in terms of 1:9 until the NATO ammunition trials in the late '70s; long after the Army had rejected the gun for service.

This has me thinking of another alt to add to T2K.  While not simpler than the M16 to make, the Stoner is at least possible with more primitive tooling because it skips aluminum forgings.  Instead of the M16EZ we have the M22...


  1. Actually, NWM had produced barrels with even faster twist rates (1 in 7.8") for the IWK 77gr Ball rounds. The SEAL teams had opportunities to field test both the IVI 68gr and IWK 77gr Ball rounds in their Mk 23 Mod 0 LMG.

    1. The Mk23 Mod0 is a different bureaucratic animal (the commando version never got an XM designation) and it lasted much longer (mid to late 80's IIRC). I was surprised that the Army had continued to update the XM22, XM23 and XM207 series designations as late as they did.

      It makes me wonder if someone was hoping to supplant the XM16A1E1 in the trials that resulted in M16A2. Goodness knows the Marines liked the Stoner for their limited fielding in 'Nam.

    2. The Stoner 63 was out of production by the time the USMC's M16A1 Product Improvement Program was green-lit. As a PIP, the M16A1E1 had no outside competitors.

      The US Army's testing of the XM22, XM23, and XM207 was funded jointly by the USMC starting in 1968. The Army was only interested in the XM207, but they were willing to test the other configurations as long as the Marines were fronting the cash. Once the USMC pulled the plug on their funding circa 1971, Cadillac Gage gave up on the Stoner.

    3. Which makes the E2 versions even stranger since the NATO 5.56 testing didn't begin until 1978! Someone was keeping the idea alive in their heart, even if reality wasn't cooperating at all.

  2. Heavy bullet 5.56mm loads were developed by the late 1960s in an attempt to short circuit the complaints of limited range leveled against M193 Ball. Around 1966, Gerald Gustafson began pushing a redesign of his early 1950s homologue of the Cal .30 M1 Ball, as was his former Aberdeen colleague, Bill Davis Jr., who then working with Colt. This led to the 68gr projectiles loaded by IVI and Federal. NWM and IWK were even more ambitious, with Ludwig Six designing a 77gr projectile as early as 1967.

    1. I did not know that! Cool! That makes the E2 versions more timely than the NATO trials for sure.

      You've out acronymed me here. IVI is? NWM, IWK?

  3. NWM (Nederlandsche Wapen-En Munitiefabriek) was the Dutch licensee of the Stoner 63. They were actually responsible for a fair amount of the development of the 63A1 variant. IWK (Industriewerke Karlsruhe) was a subdivision of the famous German firm DWM (Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken).

    IVI (Industries Valcartier Inc.) was a Canadian ammunition manufacturer. Their 68gr 5.56mm Ball load received the US Army designation XM287.


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