I giggled.
I am fascinated that there really aren't womens or girls watches with this theme. Brony only?
Thanks Anglave!
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31 December 2012
Hilarious
I got a watch in the mail today.
I giggled.
I am fascinated that there really aren't womens or girls watches with this theme. Brony only?
Thanks Anglave!
I giggled.
I am fascinated that there really aren't womens or girls watches with this theme. Brony only?
Thanks Anglave!
29 December 2012
Letter To The Congress Critters
Rubio and Bilrakis got this. (Gus' was altered slightly to reflect him being a representative).
Your fellow senator, Dianne Feinstein has introduced her wishlist of a gun ban.
I find it completely unacceptable, not one thing on the list is OK.
Any compromise is the proverbial moving my fence 100' into my neighbor's yard and calling moving the fence back 50' a compromise instead of the theft it is.
Please stand against this where ever and when ever you can.
I have a couple of suggestions for "compromise" if you'd like. Removal of short barreled rifles and sound suppressors from the NFA. Repeal of the hughes amendment. Repeal of 922r. Every time they remove something in the name of compromise, add one from my list. I am sure you can find other suggestions on any gun board.
Thanks for your time.
Nelson got this.
I am contacting you to urge you to oppose Sen. Feinstein's gun ban. It doesn't have an S number I can refer to yet.
The legislation, again, will not change what happened nor will the proposed legislation have affected it.
It is useless for its stated purpose and only has the effect of angering the populace who see that it's useless.
Thank you for your time.
UPDATE:
I just noticed that the "contact us" form no longer has "Gun Control" on the drop down.
It was there last month...
Off The Res
Jon Gutmacher thinks that we should require an NICS check for private sales.
I'll put on my tinfoil hat and declare that all helicopters are black under the paint!
He's also saying we should go to an FFL for the transfer too.
Cowardly child killer Glittershine STOLE his guns and murdered the owner. A NICS check would have helped here.
Cowardly fireman killer felon in possession Glittershine had a friend take the NICS check for him and make straw purchases.
I'm not a lawyer nor did stay at a budget hotel last night; explain to me how eliminating anonymous private sales and making everyone go to an FFL for a NICS check would have changed the outcome of either atrocity?
Bueller? Anyone?
How many times have the authorities been caught retaining that information longer than is allowed?
Do you believe that it's really destroyed?
I can't be certain and I don't entirely trust the people answering the question.
As long as I can make an anonymous purchase and sale they cannot know with any certainty that they've rounded up all the guns.
Once again we have to remind everyone that the 2nd amendment has FUCK ALL to do with crime. It's all about keeping our politicians honest and in fear of armed retaliation to their antics. If Mr McThag has a NICS check for a private sale on 21Jan2013... If confiscations start the federales will come by and ask what I bought that day even if the FFL doesn't have to put it in his book. If I don't have anything to show them they'll want to know why there's no NICS check recording my sale.
THAT is why we don't want to do this, even if it means that there's going to be some extra crime and some extra death. It's part of the natural manure of the tree of liberty. And it does suck that the world is not a perfect place.
When you fret about the callousness of saying that I am willing to let children be murdered to have a bit of extra freedom I have to remind you that it would take 1,198.88 YEARS at the 2010 rate of 14,180 murders per year to catch up with Nazi Germany. Nearly twelve centuries! And Hitler barely dents the scores of Stalin and Mao.
I do not care that such a holocaust is unlikely in the US. I want such a holocaust to be IMPOSSIBLE in the US. It is impossible as long as the government has no sure way to know they've accounted for even a small fraction of useful firearms.
Making all transactions run through a government approved licensee (whose license can be revoked nearly on a whim of a government apparatchik) increases the number of firearms the government can likely track. That makes it unlikely, at best, but NOT impossible. The people in charge have not shown that they can be trusted with the information, so I don't think they should have it.
How's this, Mr Gutmacher, we don't let violent criminals out anymore? That would have stopped Cowardly fireman killer felon in possession Glittershine and his accomplice.
I'll put on my tinfoil hat and declare that all helicopters are black under the paint!
He's also saying we should go to an FFL for the transfer too.
Cowardly child killer Glittershine STOLE his guns and murdered the owner. A NICS check would have helped here.
Cowardly fireman killer felon in possession Glittershine had a friend take the NICS check for him and make straw purchases.
I'm not a lawyer nor did stay at a budget hotel last night; explain to me how eliminating anonymous private sales and making everyone go to an FFL for a NICS check would have changed the outcome of either atrocity?
Bueller? Anyone?
How many times have the authorities been caught retaining that information longer than is allowed?
Do you believe that it's really destroyed?
I can't be certain and I don't entirely trust the people answering the question.
As long as I can make an anonymous purchase and sale they cannot know with any certainty that they've rounded up all the guns.
Once again we have to remind everyone that the 2nd amendment has FUCK ALL to do with crime. It's all about keeping our politicians honest and in fear of armed retaliation to their antics. If Mr McThag has a NICS check for a private sale on 21Jan2013... If confiscations start the federales will come by and ask what I bought that day even if the FFL doesn't have to put it in his book. If I don't have anything to show them they'll want to know why there's no NICS check recording my sale.
THAT is why we don't want to do this, even if it means that there's going to be some extra crime and some extra death. It's part of the natural manure of the tree of liberty. And it does suck that the world is not a perfect place.
When you fret about the callousness of saying that I am willing to let children be murdered to have a bit of extra freedom I have to remind you that it would take 1,198.88 YEARS at the 2010 rate of 14,180 murders per year to catch up with Nazi Germany. Nearly twelve centuries! And Hitler barely dents the scores of Stalin and Mao.
I do not care that such a holocaust is unlikely in the US. I want such a holocaust to be IMPOSSIBLE in the US. It is impossible as long as the government has no sure way to know they've accounted for even a small fraction of useful firearms.
Making all transactions run through a government approved licensee (whose license can be revoked nearly on a whim of a government apparatchik) increases the number of firearms the government can likely track. That makes it unlikely, at best, but NOT impossible. The people in charge have not shown that they can be trusted with the information, so I don't think they should have it.
How's this, Mr Gutmacher, we don't let violent criminals out anymore? That would have stopped Cowardly fireman killer felon in possession Glittershine and his accomplice.
28 December 2012
Nostalgia
I was looking through my old records and found my arms-room cards.
DA Form 3479, Jan 82.
There are three of them;
I can't believe I still have these.
DA Form 3479, Jan 82.
There are three of them;
M1911A1 Cal .45 Pistol, 1005-00-726-5655, Serial # 1164935
M16A2 5.56 Cal Auto Rifle, 1005-01-178-9936, Serial # 6300574
Bayonet Knife M7 w/ scabbard M10, 1005-00-017-9701, no serial number.
I can't believe I still have these.
Thanks to the internet I now know my mind was playing tricks on me.
My issue 1911A1 wasn't a Remington Rand, it was a Colt made in 1944.
My issue M16A2 was also a Colt, but forty years newer!
Atheist Good Wishes
Because losing your mom sucks and if it can be avoided by thinking good thoughts I give them unreservedly.
Contract
Somewhere there's a contract.
Someplace on that contract it spells out exactly who supplies what to whom, when and for how much.
Somewhere in that block of text will be penalties for failing to deliver, assuming that either party to the contract is not stupid, naive or both.
That brings us to Dick's v Troy.
Dick's Sporting Goods has refused delivery of Troy's rifles.
It could be that Dick's had a "bail at will" clause in the contract. If they did, then Troy was naive to do business with them. If there is no such clause then Dick's owes Troy for the rifles. They don't have to sell them in their stores, but they do have to pay for every one the contract stipulates they bought.
Otherwise they're in breach of contract and the penalty clauses kick in. Dick's could very well decide that paying those penalties is worth more than the cost in dollars. Again, Troy is foolish if the penalties are not more than the actual cost of the guns.
The customers who bought these rifles during the black friday sales are a murkier case. Most of those sales have a "limited supply" clause in them that makes it first come first serve and if demand exceeds supply, you get your money back. Some states have more stringent "rain check" rules on sales; but most consist of a refund when the item is genuinely unavailable and it doesn't normally penalize "discontinued" items.
An angle that might be pursued is the $800 rifle can no longer be procured because of a dramatic change in the market. Dick's sales promise incurred an opportunity cost on the customer who would have otherwise bought such a rifle before the shift in prices. Conceivably Dick's could be on the hook for the difference in price between the rifle they are refusing to accept from the manufacturer for sale and the price of an equivalent in addition to paying a refund.
That would take a clever lawyer, but I am sure there are such out there.
Someplace on that contract it spells out exactly who supplies what to whom, when and for how much.
Somewhere in that block of text will be penalties for failing to deliver, assuming that either party to the contract is not stupid, naive or both.
That brings us to Dick's v Troy.
Dick's Sporting Goods has refused delivery of Troy's rifles.
It could be that Dick's had a "bail at will" clause in the contract. If they did, then Troy was naive to do business with them. If there is no such clause then Dick's owes Troy for the rifles. They don't have to sell them in their stores, but they do have to pay for every one the contract stipulates they bought.
Otherwise they're in breach of contract and the penalty clauses kick in. Dick's could very well decide that paying those penalties is worth more than the cost in dollars. Again, Troy is foolish if the penalties are not more than the actual cost of the guns.
The customers who bought these rifles during the black friday sales are a murkier case. Most of those sales have a "limited supply" clause in them that makes it first come first serve and if demand exceeds supply, you get your money back. Some states have more stringent "rain check" rules on sales; but most consist of a refund when the item is genuinely unavailable and it doesn't normally penalize "discontinued" items.
An angle that might be pursued is the $800 rifle can no longer be procured because of a dramatic change in the market. Dick's sales promise incurred an opportunity cost on the customer who would have otherwise bought such a rifle before the shift in prices. Conceivably Dick's could be on the hook for the difference in price between the rifle they are refusing to accept from the manufacturer for sale and the price of an equivalent in addition to paying a refund.
That would take a clever lawyer, but I am sure there are such out there.
27 December 2012
More Of The Same Please
Looks like loosening gun control either lowers the murder rate or has no effect on it.
I say this because as more guns have gotten into the everyday citizen's hands, the death toll has fallen.
I won't make the correlation / causation mistake.
There are definitely more guns.
The murder and non-neglgent homicide rates have been trending down since 1996 or so.
That means that more guns reduces the murder rate.
--OR--
Something else is driving the rate down and more guns don't affect that rate.
--OR--
More guns really do cause more murders, but it's insignificant compared to the other factors driving it down. (This one is least likely since the rate of gun ownership has increased so dramatically that if there was any connection between more guns = more murder it would show up and it doesn't.)
And that's it, really.
None of those three scenarios calls for increasing gun control.
h/t Angrymike
I say this because as more guns have gotten into the everyday citizen's hands, the death toll has fallen.
I won't make the correlation / causation mistake.
There are definitely more guns.
The murder and non-neglgent homicide rates have been trending down since 1996 or so.
That means that more guns reduces the murder rate.
--OR--
Something else is driving the rate down and more guns don't affect that rate.
--OR--
More guns really do cause more murders, but it's insignificant compared to the other factors driving it down. (This one is least likely since the rate of gun ownership has increased so dramatically that if there was any connection between more guns = more murder it would show up and it doesn't.)
And that's it, really.
None of those three scenarios calls for increasing gun control.
h/t Angrymike
The Great Waldo Pepper
It's one of my favorite films.
I first saw it on TV for the noon-time matinee when I was a little kid.
Being an aviation buff from a ripe young age, it instantly appealed to me.
Recently it became available on iTunes (I've never been able to find a copy of the DVD).
A couple of things I noticed.
The wings on a Fokker Dr.1 are cantilevered. The outer struts are basically decorative and were added to salve the fears of the Luftstreitkräfte. Kessler's losing of those struts and one aileron should not have been fatal.
The movie concludes in 1931 and notes that Pepper dies in 1931. I don't think that the character really died. I think his "death" was faked and he started over under an assumed name. Pepper had been shown having a willingness to lie and assume other identities. Why not take advantage of flying over the hill in a "damaged too badly to land" airplane and sink it in a lake or something. They show about ten crashes where people survived in the film, one more is believable.
I first saw it on TV for the noon-time matinee when I was a little kid.
Being an aviation buff from a ripe young age, it instantly appealed to me.
Recently it became available on iTunes (I've never been able to find a copy of the DVD).
A couple of things I noticed.
The wings on a Fokker Dr.1 are cantilevered. The outer struts are basically decorative and were added to salve the fears of the Luftstreitkräfte. Kessler's losing of those struts and one aileron should not have been fatal.
The movie concludes in 1931 and notes that Pepper dies in 1931. I don't think that the character really died. I think his "death" was faked and he started over under an assumed name. Pepper had been shown having a willingness to lie and assume other identities. Why not take advantage of flying over the hill in a "damaged too badly to land" airplane and sink it in a lake or something. They show about ten crashes where people survived in the film, one more is believable.
Regret
While I am amused at some people's sudden discovery that they'd prefer to be armed and cannot buy the gun they want now for anything resembling a reasonable price...
I regret I don't have any parts to sell to help out the people who have been wanting one for a long time but have not had the means. Things going stupid expensive didn't help them in the slightest, if it was too expensive at $500, it's damn sure too much at $1,000.
I regret I don't have any parts to sell to help out the people who have been wanting one for a long time but have not had the means. Things going stupid expensive didn't help them in the slightest, if it was too expensive at $500, it's damn sure too much at $1,000.
Compromise
Gun control is not my neighbor moving the fence 100' into my yard, then when I complain moving the fence back 50' and calling it a compromise.
Gun control is my neighbor stealing my car and offering a compromise of paying for gas to use the car they just stole AND THEN BORROWING MONEY FROM ME!
Gun control is my neighbor stealing my car and offering a compromise of paying for gas to use the car they just stole AND THEN BORROWING MONEY FROM ME!
Collector
I no longer have a Facebook account.
I got sick of the endless boring details of the various sports collectives and being told that if I didn't hit "Like" I was responsible for dead babies in the Congo.
Not to mention the rivers of tears and blame that were assigned me for not being a vocal bastion of liberal group-think.
The Lovely Harvey kept her account.
Something interesting is happening.
Many of those people who were excoriating me for failing to be a liberal are now making inquiries through Harvey if I would be willing help them pick "the right gun" and teach them to shoot.
Some have even asked if I have any guns I wanted to sell.
Sell? I am a guncollector accumulator! I don't sell guns!
I've lost so many in boating accidents that I hold the few that remain dear.
I would sell some, but I don't have any that are surplus to my wants. I've sold a couple in the past that I've deeply regretted and that makes me reluctant to sell any more. The two I most regret is the US Property marked Remington-Rand M1911A1 my dad gave me and a pristine Brazilian M-1908 DWM Mauser.
I've replaced all of the other regretful sales, but it would have been far cheaper to have just retained the original gun. The replacements are often not quite the same gun.
My Entrèprise receiver L1A1 was replaced with a DSA SA58. Inch to Metric, kit to factory. The metric gun actually fits me better though.
The Anaconda was replaced with a different Anaconda. Both were .45 Colt, the new one is 6" and the old 4".
I could be a collector. I've discovered I am interested enough in Mosin-Nagants thanks to my two Finnish acquisitions that I could try my hand at collecting those. It doesn't hurt that only the Kiv/27 on that list is particularly expensive.
I got sick of the endless boring details of the various sports collectives and being told that if I didn't hit "Like" I was responsible for dead babies in the Congo.
Not to mention the rivers of tears and blame that were assigned me for not being a vocal bastion of liberal group-think.
The Lovely Harvey kept her account.
Something interesting is happening.
Many of those people who were excoriating me for failing to be a liberal are now making inquiries through Harvey if I would be willing help them pick "the right gun" and teach them to shoot.
Some have even asked if I have any guns I wanted to sell.
Sell? I am a gun
I've lost so many in boating accidents that I hold the few that remain dear.
I would sell some, but I don't have any that are surplus to my wants. I've sold a couple in the past that I've deeply regretted and that makes me reluctant to sell any more. The two I most regret is the US Property marked Remington-Rand M1911A1 my dad gave me and a pristine Brazilian M-1908 DWM Mauser.
I've replaced all of the other regretful sales, but it would have been far cheaper to have just retained the original gun. The replacements are often not quite the same gun.
My Entrèprise receiver L1A1 was replaced with a DSA SA58. Inch to Metric, kit to factory. The metric gun actually fits me better though.
The Anaconda was replaced with a different Anaconda. Both were .45 Colt, the new one is 6" and the old 4".
I could be a collector. I've discovered I am interested enough in Mosin-Nagants thanks to my two Finnish acquisitions that I could try my hand at collecting those. It doesn't hurt that only the Kiv/27 on that list is particularly expensive.
26 December 2012
Must See
Ever read a single review and KNOW you have to see a film?
Spike Lee says Django Unchained is disrespectful to his ancestors?
Where does the line form?
I'll pay good money to see that just on the off chance that buying a ticket causes him physical pain.
Why do I feel this way? Something about a film he made about US soldiers in Italy... In a famous event where the (famous) unit in the film was very involved in the situation but in reality had never been near it.
And the depiction of the Italians disrespected MY ancestors.
Suck it, Spike.
Spike Lee says Django Unchained is disrespectful to his ancestors?
Where does the line form?
I'll pay good money to see that just on the off chance that buying a ticket causes him physical pain.
Why do I feel this way? Something about a film he made about US soldiers in Italy... In a famous event where the (famous) unit in the film was very involved in the situation but in reality had never been near it.
And the depiction of the Italians disrespected MY ancestors.
Suck it, Spike.
25 December 2012
If Only
You know what would have stopped the murder of those firemen?
Make it illegal for a felon to purchase, own or possess a firearm.
That'd make it all better.
Oh wait...
Make it illegal for a felon to purchase, own or possess a firearm.
That'd make it all better.
Oh wait...
Slang Gun
Tam once (more than once?) described Armscor's 1911 products as "Philippine Slag Gun".
What's the derogatory slang term for Imbel?
What's the derogatory slang term for Imbel?
Video Games
I am not much of a video gamer.
It's because I suck at them. Any competence I have with a given game is through long hours assaulting a learning curve to me that's quite steep. That curve seems incredibly intuitive to my friends most of the time. Being the last one to "get it" is discouraging and quite often I find myself getting good at a game just in time for everyone else to quit playing.
I do, however, know a lot of people who game. A decent hunk are also gun owners (a couple are gun owners because of me).
I noticed that none of them went insane and shot up anything, um, ever.
I game too, but I do flight sims and table-top role-playing.
I had a mild case of PTSD coming out of the military. It would have been fine if I'd been aware of all the programs the Army and VA had to help me out, but I didn't avail myself of them until I was a wreck. It took a long time to get back on an even keel and even longer to fix broken relationships from my destructive behavior.
I've never gone out and murdered anyone.
I've mentioned before that I was bullied for a long time in junior high and high school.
Except for a couple instances of fighting back against the bullies, there was no violence from me during that time, let alone a fatality.
So, let's add all this up.
PTSD Vet.
Bullied in school.
Gamer.
Gun owner.
Based on the narrative I should be out there killing a crowd every couple hours, huh?
Or you've missed a causative factor while making correlations.
Once again I am sick of being accused of being something I am not because I share a superficial characteristic of a criminal. Aren't you the same people telling me I shouldn't judge people by the color of their skin? I ask because I see a lot of criminals in the crime blotter who are black, and if we're going to go on superficial similarities from now on...
Do you feel stupid yet? You should. Can you bring your sign next time so everyone knows not to listen to you?
It's because I suck at them. Any competence I have with a given game is through long hours assaulting a learning curve to me that's quite steep. That curve seems incredibly intuitive to my friends most of the time. Being the last one to "get it" is discouraging and quite often I find myself getting good at a game just in time for everyone else to quit playing.
I do, however, know a lot of people who game. A decent hunk are also gun owners (a couple are gun owners because of me).
I noticed that none of them went insane and shot up anything, um, ever.
I game too, but I do flight sims and table-top role-playing.
I had a mild case of PTSD coming out of the military. It would have been fine if I'd been aware of all the programs the Army and VA had to help me out, but I didn't avail myself of them until I was a wreck. It took a long time to get back on an even keel and even longer to fix broken relationships from my destructive behavior.
I've never gone out and murdered anyone.
I've mentioned before that I was bullied for a long time in junior high and high school.
Except for a couple instances of fighting back against the bullies, there was no violence from me during that time, let alone a fatality.
So, let's add all this up.
PTSD Vet.
Bullied in school.
Gamer.
Gun owner.
Based on the narrative I should be out there killing a crowd every couple hours, huh?
Or you've missed a causative factor while making correlations.
Once again I am sick of being accused of being something I am not because I share a superficial characteristic of a criminal. Aren't you the same people telling me I shouldn't judge people by the color of their skin? I ask because I see a lot of criminals in the crime blotter who are black, and if we're going to go on superficial similarities from now on...
Do you feel stupid yet? You should. Can you bring your sign next time so everyone knows not to listen to you?
DAMN YOU JAY G!
I'm Mister White Christmas
I'm Mister Snow
I'm Mister Icicle
I'm Mister Ten Below
Friends call me Snow Miser,
What ever I touch
Turns to snow in my clutch
I'm too much!
He's Mister White Christmas
He's Mister Snow
He's Mister Icicle
He's Mister Ten Below
Friends call me Snow Miser,
What ever I touch
Turns to snow in my clutch
He's too much!
I never want to know a day
That's over forty degrees
I'd rather have it thirty,
Twenty, then Five, then let it freeze!
(brrrrrrrrrrr!)
He's Mister White Christmas
He's Mister Snow
He's Mister Icicle
He's Mister Ten Below
Friends call me Snow Miser,
What ever I touch
Turns to snow in my clutch,
Too much.
Too Much!
I'm Mister Green Christmas
I'm Mister Sun
I'm Mister Heat Blister
I'm Mister Hundred and One
They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch
I'm too much!
He's Mister Green Christmas
He's Mister Sun
He's Mister Heat Blister
He's Mister Hundred and One
They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch
He's too much!
Thank you!
I never want to know a day
That's under sixty degrees
I'd rather have it eighty,
Ninety, one hundred's a breeze!
(spoken)
Oh, some like it hot, but I like it
REALLY hot! Hee hee!
He's Mister Green Christmas
He's Mister Sun
Sing it!
He's Mister Heat Blister
He's Mister Hundred and One
They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch
I'm too much!
Too Much!
I'm Mister Snow
I'm Mister Icicle
I'm Mister Ten Below
Friends call me Snow Miser,
What ever I touch
Turns to snow in my clutch
I'm too much!
He's Mister White Christmas
He's Mister Snow
He's Mister Icicle
He's Mister Ten Below
Friends call me Snow Miser,
What ever I touch
Turns to snow in my clutch
He's too much!
I never want to know a day
That's over forty degrees
I'd rather have it thirty,
Twenty, then Five, then let it freeze!
(brrrrrrrrrrr!)
He's Mister White Christmas
He's Mister Snow
He's Mister Icicle
He's Mister Ten Below
Friends call me Snow Miser,
What ever I touch
Turns to snow in my clutch,
Too much.
Too Much!
I'm Mister Green Christmas
I'm Mister Sun
I'm Mister Heat Blister
I'm Mister Hundred and One
They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch
I'm too much!
He's Mister Green Christmas
He's Mister Sun
He's Mister Heat Blister
He's Mister Hundred and One
They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch
He's too much!
Thank you!
I never want to know a day
That's under sixty degrees
I'd rather have it eighty,
Ninety, one hundred's a breeze!
(spoken)
Oh, some like it hot, but I like it
REALLY hot! Hee hee!
He's Mister Green Christmas
He's Mister Sun
Sing it!
He's Mister Heat Blister
He's Mister Hundred and One
They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch
I'm too much!
Too Much!
24 December 2012
Christmas Eve Stuff
Did our traditional Chinese dinner then a tour of the neighborhood and surround's Christmas lights.
Milk and cookies for "Santa".
Milk and cookies for "Santa".
Merry Christmas!
The most secular religious holiday in the world!
Something that can unite Christians, Jews, Shinto and Atheists in an open display of gift giving and social interaction must be special.
Something that can unite Christians, Jews, Shinto and Atheists in an open display of gift giving and social interaction must be special.
23 December 2012
New Dottie
Displaced is the Anvil Arms lower and the Spike's Tactical Florida Home Town Forum lower in its place.
No real reason, just playing dress-up with my bARbies.
Check Your Mail
I am still getting email advertising from places that are out of stock on the very things they are advertising.
They should really fix that.
They should really fix that.
Wrong Tree Wayne
There are about 12 million Call of Duty players out there.
There are over 10 million World of Warcraft subscribers.
Let us assume that Glitterface Twinkleshine was driven by his love of WoW to begin his rampage. That still leaves over 10 million subscribers who didn't wig out and kill anyone.
This is exactly the same thing as blaming the guns.
Do the right thing, Big Media. For the children?
What we don't need is laws banning broadcast and publishing of certain items.
What we don't need is a different deodand to blame.
Unfortunately there's definitely a causal relationship between the media's reporting on these events and the next Mr Twinkleshine. I don't propose we force the media to do what's right. I propose they step up like decent human beings.
For the childern, Big Media, for the children.
Update:
It occurs that the way the media reports on such things in a way that aggrandizes the shooter is very similar to yelling fire in a crowded theater. They often cite that as a limitation on the first amendment while calling for limitations on the second. Except that prior restraint was shot down more than once by the Supreme Court.
What I'd like is for the media to recognize that the manner of their reporting, in order to score points against the pro-gun side is having the result of creating the very thing we both wish to stop happening. Assuming that they really do wish to see it stop. The cynic in me thinks they are perfectly happy to have these slaughters so they can continue to score their talking points against guns.
There are over 10 million World of Warcraft subscribers.
Let us assume that Glitterface Twinkleshine was driven by his love of WoW to begin his rampage. That still leaves over 10 million subscribers who didn't wig out and kill anyone.
This is exactly the same thing as blaming the guns.
Do the right thing, Big Media. For the children?
What we don't need is laws banning broadcast and publishing of certain items.
What we don't need is a different deodand to blame.
Unfortunately there's definitely a causal relationship between the media's reporting on these events and the next Mr Twinkleshine. I don't propose we force the media to do what's right. I propose they step up like decent human beings.
For the childern, Big Media, for the children.
Update:
It occurs that the way the media reports on such things in a way that aggrandizes the shooter is very similar to yelling fire in a crowded theater. They often cite that as a limitation on the first amendment while calling for limitations on the second. Except that prior restraint was shot down more than once by the Supreme Court.
What I'd like is for the media to recognize that the manner of their reporting, in order to score points against the pro-gun side is having the result of creating the very thing we both wish to stop happening. Assuming that they really do wish to see it stop. The cynic in me thinks they are perfectly happy to have these slaughters so they can continue to score their talking points against guns.
22 December 2012
Here's A Thought
Glitterface Twinkleshine was only able to kill so many children because they were concentrated in a small area by a STATE MANDATED AND FUNDED elementary school system.
Let's ban target concentration facilities.
It's for the children.
Also very likely that the school was a union shop. We can say that unions caused this too, can't we? Unions are well known for attracting violence.
Bonus Godwin!
You know who else was into concentration facilities? Hitler!
Let's ban target concentration facilities.
It's for the children.
Also very likely that the school was a union shop. We can say that unions caused this too, can't we? Unions are well known for attracting violence.
Bonus Godwin!
You know who else was into concentration facilities? Hitler!
Before And After
New GURPS Lecture!
GURPS Third Edition came out in 1988. Fourth Edition in 2004.
We played it for all 16 of those years and we had a lot to unlearn when the new version came out.
How ranged weapons work, particularly firearms, was changed pretty dramatically.
First: Semi-Automatic Fire
In 3e you took your skill level, added bonuses for aiming, bracing, etc then subtracted penalties for range, recoil, target movement, bullet shyness, flinch and buck fever.
Our shooter's skill is 12.
Lets take three shots with an M16A1 at a man sized target at 50 yards.
Skill 12 + Acc 11 + Braced 1 - Range 9. Recoil is a -1 and does not apply to the first round fired.
First round; 15 or less. Second; 14 or less. Third 13 or less.
Let's make it a combat situation where the other guy is firing back and you know you have to make that shot! That adds in bullet shyness and buck fever. Both are -0 to -10 penalties, GM decides. I'll rule that they're -5 each this time.
Exactly the same mechanic as before! Same mechanic as semi-auto except we get a bonus to our hit roll for firing 4+ rounds per turn. In this case +2.
Spreading into two zones... Six into each.
GURPS Third Edition came out in 1988. Fourth Edition in 2004.
We played it for all 16 of those years and we had a lot to unlearn when the new version came out.
How ranged weapons work, particularly firearms, was changed pretty dramatically.
First: Semi-Automatic Fire
In 3e you took your skill level, added bonuses for aiming, bracing, etc then subtracted penalties for range, recoil, target movement, bullet shyness, flinch and buck fever.
Our shooter's skill is 12.
Lets take three shots with an M16A1 at a man sized target at 50 yards.
Skill 12 + Acc 11 + Braced 1 - Range 9. Recoil is a -1 and does not apply to the first round fired.
First round; 15 or less. Second; 14 or less. Third 13 or less.
Let's make it a combat situation where the other guy is firing back and you know you have to make that shot! That adds in bullet shyness and buck fever. Both are -0 to -10 penalties, GM decides. I'll rule that they're -5 each this time.
Skill 12 + Acc 11 + Braced 1 - Range 9 - Bullet Shyness 5 - Buck Fever 5. Recoil is a -1.
First round; 5 or less. Second; 4 or less. Third 3 or less.
Harsh! We'll have Fuzzygeff come along and calculate the probabilities for landing a hit at all there.
4e:
Most of the lingo is the same. There's no longer a bullet shyness or buck fever. All shooting is now assumed to be under stress where the 3e assumption was at the range.
You now take skill level add bonuses for aiming, bracing etc and subtract penalties for range and movement. Recoil is a completely different mechanic. For each "Rcl" your roll exceeds the chance to hit, you get an extra round hitting!
Skill 12 + Acc 5 + Braced 1 - Range 8. Rcl 2.
To hit with 1 round you need to roll a 10 or less, two round on an 8 and three round on a 6.
It's worse than at the range and better than under mid range stress penalties.
Second: Automatic Fire
The rough formula is the same 3e except we now break the weapon's rate of fire (RoF) into "bursts" You make as many 4 round bursts as you can then the remainder is a less than 4...
The M16A1 has a RoF of 12*. The asterisk means its select-fire.
Let's fire the whole 12 at our target! It works the same as semi except we're rolling for each burst instead of each bullet and recoil applies to the first burst.
Skill 12 + Acc 11 + Braced 1 - Range 9. Recoil is a -1.
We get three 4-round bursts. Initial chance to hit is 14 and we look up how many shots hit on a table based on how well you roll. Miss by 1 is 1 hit, hit by 0-1 is 2 hits, hit by 2-4 is 3 hits and hit by 5+ is 4 hits. Second burst rolls against a 13 and third against a 12.
Now let's apply our stress modifiers.
Skill 12 + Acc 11 + Braced 1 - Range 9 - Bullet Shyness 5 - Buck Fever 5. Recoil is a -1.
Changes our rolls to 4, 3 and 2. Two is normally impossible, but since a miss by one is a hit, we'll let them try. Also note that missing by 10 or more is a critical failure!
I want to point out here and now that Buck Fever and Bullet Shyness were among the most unpopular rules my players encountered. Having your damn epic chance to hit whittled down to ammo-wasting pissed them off.
4e!
Skill 12 + Acc 5 + Braced 1 + Rapid Fire 2 - Range 8. Rcl 2.
To hit with 1 round you need to roll a 12 or less, two rounds on an 10, three rounds on a 8, four rounds on a 6 and five rounds on a 4.
When you consider the stress modifiers, a 3e character can only hope to land five rounds as well! The 4e character is far more likely to hit at all.
Third: The Snapshot Penalty
3e guns have a stat called "Snapshot" (SS). An M16A1's SS is 12. What this number means is if your chance to hit is 12 or less there's an additional -4 penalty to hit. This penalty is erased by aiming (which also adds the Acc bonus).
Third: The Snapshot Penalty
3e guns have a stat called "Snapshot" (SS). An M16A1's SS is 12. What this number means is if your chance to hit is 12 or less there's an additional -4 penalty to hit. This penalty is erased by aiming (which also adds the Acc bonus).
Skill 12 + Braced 1 - Range 9 = 4 which is less than 12 so another -4 bringing our chance to hit below 3; so no chance to hit! Notice that we don't even have the stress mods on there?
In 4e you simply don't get the Acc bonus.
Skill 12 + Braced 1 - Range 8. Rcl 2.
To hit with 1 round you need to roll a 5 or less, two round on a 3.
Finally: The Beaten Zone
Automatic fire is normally used as an area weapon not a point weapon. Machine gunners fire into what is called the beaten zone.
It's a lozenge shaped area where the bullets are going to pass through standing men.
In 3e they mention all that and don't help you with defining it.
So the GM gets to decide the area affected and the player starts rolling. Since it's not aimed fire at all, and the chance to hit 6 or less. You roll that for each round at each target in the area. Our M16A1 has a RoF of 12 and lets say there are 6 bad buys in the zone. 72! rolls! Actually it could be less. If a bullet hits something, you stop checking to see if it hits anything else. It takes forever and is a bookkeeping irritation of the first order.
This is the only rule that got more complaining than the stress modifiers.
4e replaces that tedious process with "suppressing fire". Same rules chances to hit as with normal automatic fire, except your effective skill can't be exceed 6 (8 if from a mount like a tripod). RoF 9 or less attacks everything in a fan two yards wide at the target's range. If you have RoF 10+ you can add an additional two yards per 5 shots and you have to put at least five rounds into each zone. RoF bonuses apply normally.
Dumping all 12 shots into one zone.
Skill 12 + Acc 5 + Braced 1 - Range 8. That's 10 or less which becomes a 6.
Skill 6 + Rapid Fire 2. Rcl 2.
Roll for each target in the zone.
To hit with 1 round you need to roll a 8 or less, two rounds on an 6, and three rounds on a 4.
Spreading into two zones... Six into each.
Skill 6 + Rapid Fire 1. Rcl 2.
Roll for each target in the zone.
To hit with 1 round you need to roll a 7 or less, two rounds on an 5, and three rounds on a 3.
There's still a lot of rolling, but it's a lot less. 6 rolls for six bad guys instead of 72, plus the zone is better defined. Downside, it attacks anyone in the zone, friends included.
Acceptance
I've read a couple of times since Glitterface Twinkleshine shot up Sandyhook people asking if our gun freedoms are worth the death of x number of children.
Yes. Yes it is. It's the cost of the freedom in our nearly broken society.
And we have the capacity to bear such costs because we already are bearing those costs without comment.
We are free to own and operate motor vehicles. Yet when an accident kills a child, or several, we do not hear months of hue and cry to ban assault cars that can transport more than two children.
We are free to own swimming pools and hot tubs. Drowning kills more children than guns (if we're honest about the term "child"). Shall we ban water?
We bear the price in blood for cars and large containers of water.
Why not guns?
What's different about guns?
The "paranoid conspiracy" version is that banning pools and cars has no increased level of control over the citizens attached to it. Ban guns and you may rule as you will without fear the citizens will murder you in your palace.
"Give redress to our grievances, Tyrant, or you shall die! We have a portable spa!" just doesn't have the same, uh, edge.
Guns are weapons. Pools and cars aren't. I guess that makes them scarier, but they are actually less deadly than water and vehicles.
Yes. Yes it is. It's the cost of the freedom in our nearly broken society.
And we have the capacity to bear such costs because we already are bearing those costs without comment.
We are free to own and operate motor vehicles. Yet when an accident kills a child, or several, we do not hear months of hue and cry to ban assault cars that can transport more than two children.
We are free to own swimming pools and hot tubs. Drowning kills more children than guns (if we're honest about the term "child"). Shall we ban water?
We bear the price in blood for cars and large containers of water.
Why not guns?
What's different about guns?
The "paranoid conspiracy" version is that banning pools and cars has no increased level of control over the citizens attached to it. Ban guns and you may rule as you will without fear the citizens will murder you in your palace.
"Give redress to our grievances, Tyrant, or you shall die! We have a portable spa!" just doesn't have the same, uh, edge.
Guns are weapons. Pools and cars aren't. I guess that makes them scarier, but they are actually less deadly than water and vehicles.
21 December 2012
Gotta Love The Media
This story is breathlessly reporting about how Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) and Representative Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY 4) have introduced bills that will ban high capacity magazines.
I found the bills they were referring to.
McCarthy's H.R. 308 introduced on 18JAN11 and Lautenberg's S.32, introduced on 25JAN11.
Both have been languishing in committee for nearly two years. We've had an ELECTION since those bills were introduced!
They did not put these bills up in response to Colorado or Sandy Hook. They are taking advantage of the crisis to push their agenda.
We gunnies are well familiar with Frank and Carolyn. They've introduced bills like this since the AWB expired.
It's sad, really, it's always the same Congresscritters and always the same verbiage.
I found the bills they were referring to.
McCarthy's H.R. 308 introduced on 18JAN11 and Lautenberg's S.32, introduced on 25JAN11.
Both have been languishing in committee for nearly two years. We've had an ELECTION since those bills were introduced!
They did not put these bills up in response to Colorado or Sandy Hook. They are taking advantage of the crisis to push their agenda.
We gunnies are well familiar with Frank and Carolyn. They've introduced bills like this since the AWB expired.
It's sad, really, it's always the same Congresscritters and always the same verbiage.
Holy Crap!
Wayne La Pierre has been possessed by my father's father!
Damn kids and their vidya games!
Damn kids and their vidya games!
A Thought
Gun sales have been steadily increasing for years now.
The industry has been steadily upping production capacity.
The panic was still able to deplete all available supplies!
The industry has been steadily upping production capacity.
The panic was still able to deplete all available supplies!
Happy Mayan Y2K!
Sometime today the Mayan calendar rolls over.
It did it at least once when there was still a Mayan society to care.
Guess what didn't end then either?
It did it at least once when there was still a Mayan society to care.
Guess what didn't end then either?
Truth In Advertising
One of those stupid talk shows had Mike talking about the guns we need to eliminate.
He mentioned, "advertised as being able to take down an airliner at over a mile."
Really?
Where was this ad?
I'm a gun geek. Especially military guns.
I don't recall seeing this ad.
The ads where the maker is touting the ability of their arm to kill aircraft are by makers of things with seeker heads and rocket motors.
He'd better not be talking about a Barrett either.
Being the kind of geek I am I'm aware of what kind of damage a .50 cal round will do to an airplane. It took lots of hits to take out teeny little German fighters in WW2 or North Korean MiGs in Korea.
A modern airliner is likely not going to be taken down by a person with a Barrett unless it's a golden BB shot (and a .30-30 would suffice in that case).
So, Mike, where was this ad published? Until you do I'll just have to maintain that you're lying; like when you claimed you were a Republican or like when you said you'd abide by the term limits...
He mentioned, "advertised as being able to take down an airliner at over a mile."
Really?
Where was this ad?
I'm a gun geek. Especially military guns.
I don't recall seeing this ad.
The ads where the maker is touting the ability of their arm to kill aircraft are by makers of things with seeker heads and rocket motors.
He'd better not be talking about a Barrett either.
Being the kind of geek I am I'm aware of what kind of damage a .50 cal round will do to an airplane. It took lots of hits to take out teeny little German fighters in WW2 or North Korean MiGs in Korea.
A modern airliner is likely not going to be taken down by a person with a Barrett unless it's a golden BB shot (and a .30-30 would suffice in that case).
So, Mike, where was this ad published? Until you do I'll just have to maintain that you're lying; like when you claimed you were a Republican or like when you said you'd abide by the term limits...
More Realizations
Compare these two.
For literally decades I have been a staunch advocate of the M1911A1. All of the changes made in 1924 were for the good and there was no reason to go backwards.
I was wrong.
I find I prefer the longer trigger and flat mainspring housing. The reliefs behind the trigger may not matter, but so far all the 1911's I've fired have had them.
The smooth grips on the Springfield are much narrower than the checkered diamond style on the Colt, and that makes it easier to get at the magazine release. Other than that, I am OK with the Colt's grips and the checkering certainly will improve my grip.
The sights on the Colt are far better than the Army standard ones on the Springfield. I bought the GI model specifically because it was such a good clone of the gun I carried while a tank crewman.
This leaves me in a quandary. I want a 1911 in .45 that isn't like the gun I carried in the Army. That means I'm going to be spending more money, don't it?
Anyone got a less than $1,500 plan for such?
It is also amusing to note that every .38 Super 1911 that Colt made from 1929 until the Model 1991 was in the 1911A1 form; only the more recent guns have reverted to the older pattern.
20 December 2012
Realizations
I just realized a couple things.
First, I seem to like the alternative round in a classic design better than the original. 6.8 in an AR and .38 Super in a 1911.
Hi! I am McThag and I'm a heretic.
Second. The new Colt has no magazine safety and no loaded chamber indicator. It has a firing pin block, but other than that it's the same level of dangerous as a made in 1912 gun.
There's only my wits and prudence keeping the gun from going off unintended.
And I like it that way.
Two of my .25's have magazine safeties and I just cannot help but think that "feature" is asking for an accident to happen.
First, I seem to like the alternative round in a classic design better than the original. 6.8 in an AR and .38 Super in a 1911.
Hi! I am McThag and I'm a heretic.
Second. The new Colt has no magazine safety and no loaded chamber indicator. It has a firing pin block, but other than that it's the same level of dangerous as a made in 1912 gun.
There's only my wits and prudence keeping the gun from going off unintended.
And I like it that way.
Two of my .25's have magazine safeties and I just cannot help but think that "feature" is asking for an accident to happen.
.38 Super Range Report
Took the new Colt to the range.
Not an endurance test or anything, just 50 rounds of Magtech's 130gr FMJ.
Seven yards, one magazine each at the 8 and the 9. The last five in the box went into trying to make a smilie face.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with it.
There is a LOT more muzzle flash from .38 Super than .45 ACP. I'm not sure how to describe the recoil. It seemed like it took a lot less time, but wasn't harsh or abrupt at all. Not snappy like The Lovely Harvey's .357 SIG.
Most importantly I LIKE shooting this gun. Looks like I'm going to have to start stocking up on ammo because hardly anyone carries it locally.
Not an endurance test or anything, just 50 rounds of Magtech's 130gr FMJ.
Seven yards, one magazine each at the 8 and the 9. The last five in the box went into trying to make a smilie face.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with it.
There is a LOT more muzzle flash from .38 Super than .45 ACP. I'm not sure how to describe the recoil. It seemed like it took a lot less time, but wasn't harsh or abrupt at all. Not snappy like The Lovely Harvey's .357 SIG.
Most importantly I LIKE shooting this gun. Looks like I'm going to have to start stocking up on ammo because hardly anyone carries it locally.
19 December 2012
Further Comparison
.38 Super v .45 ACP.
What I gave here was a comparison of ball ammunition.
Who carries that anymore?
In GURPS terms for hollowpoints you up the damage type one step and add an armor divisor of 0.5.
So the .38 Super damage changes from 3d-1 pi to 3d-1(0.5) pi+.
.45 ACP changes from 2d pi+ to 2d(0.5) pi++
As I mentioned before pi+ increases damage that makes it through the armor by 50%, pi++ doubles it.
With an armor divisor of 0.5, they aren't punching much armor. 0.5 DOUBLES the DR of the armor and gives a DR of 1 against unarmored targets.
Average die rolls (3.5 per die) against someone in a t-shirt:
.38 Super lands 9 points raw, -1 for the "bonus" DR, so 8 penetrates plus 50% so 12 points of damage. That's a major wound and a HT to remain conscious for the average person.
.45 ACP lands 7 points raw, -1 for the DR, 6 penetrates doubled gives 12...
Again they're nearly identical.
Neither will make it through that DR 6 vest on average, but the 38 Super has a chance. Since that DR is doubled I need a roll of 13 damage or more to do any to the target. Since the range of damage is 2-17, there's at least a chance of penetration. Best roll, five will penetrate and be upped to 7 points of damage to the target.
What about 9mm you ask?
2d+2 pi becomes 2d+2(0.5) pi+. 9 on average, 8 gets through, 12. Same situation as 38 Super with the armor. Spread of 4-14...
I suppose I should be fair and add .40 S&W to the discussion.
.40 is 2d+2 pi+ for ball. Unarmored target, average roll: 9, upped to 13 (I'm spotting a trend in handgun stopping power...)
Our DR 6 target: 9, 3 penetrates, 4 done.
Hollow points; 2d+2(0.5) pi++: 9, becomes 8, upped to 16!
Against DR 6, no penetration on average. Range of 4-14, up to two could penetrate so there's a very small chance of getting 4 to the target.
Here's another view... I'm often fascinated that a simple role playing game compares favorably with real world data. Pic snagged from here:
What I gave here was a comparison of ball ammunition.
Who carries that anymore?
In GURPS terms for hollowpoints you up the damage type one step and add an armor divisor of 0.5.
So the .38 Super damage changes from 3d-1 pi to 3d-1(0.5) pi+.
.45 ACP changes from 2d pi+ to 2d(0.5) pi++
As I mentioned before pi+ increases damage that makes it through the armor by 50%, pi++ doubles it.
With an armor divisor of 0.5, they aren't punching much armor. 0.5 DOUBLES the DR of the armor and gives a DR of 1 against unarmored targets.
Average die rolls (3.5 per die) against someone in a t-shirt:
.38 Super lands 9 points raw, -1 for the "bonus" DR, so 8 penetrates plus 50% so 12 points of damage. That's a major wound and a HT to remain conscious for the average person.
.45 ACP lands 7 points raw, -1 for the DR, 6 penetrates doubled gives 12...
Again they're nearly identical.
Neither will make it through that DR 6 vest on average, but the 38 Super has a chance. Since that DR is doubled I need a roll of 13 damage or more to do any to the target. Since the range of damage is 2-17, there's at least a chance of penetration. Best roll, five will penetrate and be upped to 7 points of damage to the target.
What about 9mm you ask?
2d+2 pi becomes 2d+2(0.5) pi+. 9 on average, 8 gets through, 12. Same situation as 38 Super with the armor. Spread of 4-14...
I suppose I should be fair and add .40 S&W to the discussion.
.40 is 2d+2 pi+ for ball. Unarmored target, average roll: 9, upped to 13 (I'm spotting a trend in handgun stopping power...)
Our DR 6 target: 9, 3 penetrates, 4 done.
Hollow points; 2d+2(0.5) pi++: 9, becomes 8, upped to 16!
Against DR 6, no penetration on average. Range of 4-14, up to two could penetrate so there's a very small chance of getting 4 to the target.
Here's another view... I'm often fascinated that a simple role playing game compares favorably with real world data. Pic snagged from here:
Tone
I was at one of the larger gun store/ranges yesterday buying some .38 Super.
It was quite a different tone than in 2008.
In 2008 there were plenty of rifles on the wall and while ammo was scarce, there was some. The people buying evol black rifles were talking about how the prices of such had spiked during the Clinton ban. They were investing.
Yesterday, though, the mood was grim. The only black rifles on the wall were ones that crossed the $2k line. They had an FAL and a couple of SCARS.
Even the wall of unwanted bolt actions was dented.
No scopes for under $500 left. No .223 unless you were buying a gun.
These people weren't buying expecting the prices to rise and thus sell at a sweet profit. These sales were to people who have the grim look of folks expecting to NEED such a weapon.
I've seen this look and behavior before. When we're expecting a hurricane around here, people do this. Except with a hurricane there aren't near so MANY.
The people buying are not hunters or gunnies but everyday folks. Many of them were buying their first gun. Many were very shocked to discover that Hillsborough County had decided to add the optional three day waiting period for long gun sales. I they pick up their guns on Friday.
The waiting period was the fun part of people watching. More than once I overheard something to the effect of, "for something with no laws restricting it, there sure are a lot of legal boxes to check before you can own one."
It was quite a different tone than in 2008.
In 2008 there were plenty of rifles on the wall and while ammo was scarce, there was some. The people buying evol black rifles were talking about how the prices of such had spiked during the Clinton ban. They were investing.
Yesterday, though, the mood was grim. The only black rifles on the wall were ones that crossed the $2k line. They had an FAL and a couple of SCARS.
Even the wall of unwanted bolt actions was dented.
No scopes for under $500 left. No .223 unless you were buying a gun.
These people weren't buying expecting the prices to rise and thus sell at a sweet profit. These sales were to people who have the grim look of folks expecting to NEED such a weapon.
I've seen this look and behavior before. When we're expecting a hurricane around here, people do this. Except with a hurricane there aren't near so MANY.
The people buying are not hunters or gunnies but everyday folks. Many of them were buying their first gun. Many were very shocked to discover that Hillsborough County had decided to add the optional three day waiting period for long gun sales. I they pick up their guns on Friday.
The waiting period was the fun part of people watching. More than once I overheard something to the effect of, "for something with no laws restricting it, there sure are a lot of legal boxes to check before you can own one."
Happy Birthday!
This gun was made in Spain the same year I was made in Iowa!
We also have similar intrinsic values!
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