26 January 2016

Going At It

Mark La Rue and Bill Geissele are going at it in a friendly way over on Arfcom over triggers.

Of course this means the fans have to weigh in.

My favorite "why Geissele is better" has to be the guy who asked, "What is the NSN for the Larue auto trigger group that drops into an M-4?  Geissele's is 1005-01-618-8104."

My reply there:

An NSN is not a surefire means of determining if something is of good quality or not.

Every piece of crap I was ever issued had an NSN.

Every excellent piece of gear I was ever issued had an NSN.

Lots of useful stuff I used I bought off the shelf and it was better than issue. Chose between Charmin and 8540-00-530-3770.

It just means that it's in the NATO Stock Number system.

If it denoted quality then 5120-01-518-6126 would be the best shovel ever made. But it's not.

Now we're debating how a $350 full-auto trigger pack is superior to a $199 semi-auto one because the Geissele one has been tested by Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane.  Apples are round, oranges are round: same thing, let's make a pie!

This is the exact same argument as "is Milspec, is better".  Milspec isn't better, Milspec is defined!

A good example might be chrome lining a barrel.  It's Milspec.  Most of the time, though, chrome lining hurts accuracy; is it still better than bare steel (which has a superseded Milspec)?  It's specified for its durability, not to enhance accuracy though.  Nitrided barrels appear to have both the accuracy of steel and durability of chrome lining, are they inferior or superior to bare steel or chrome lining?

Is it the properties of the part that makes it superior or the assignment of an NSN or Milspec?


  1. I was using a set of very good snap ring pliers in a different shop then where I usually worked, got the NSN from the pliers from the printing on the sets well made box.
    Ordered a set with the NSN that I got off that box.
    I got a set of snap ring pliers that had markings that said they did not come from the USA, the handles would bend and the tips would break.
    The set came in a cardboard box.
    From that point on I would do anything I could to not order from the GSA. That was pretty easy once one learned how the system worked.
    Usually got the tools / things that I needed at a lower price than what the GSA wanted too.

    My choice, I would buy and use a Geissele trigger.

    1. But I bet you're not choosing the Geissele because it has an NSN.

      There's a long list of things that complete, "Geissele is a quality trigger because..." that never mention NSN or even government purchases.

      I chose the LaRue this one time because it gets good reviews and was half-price! If it's even 80% as good as Geissele I made out, because the comparable trigger from Geissle was the same MSRP (or double what I actually paid).

      For $125, I'll dip my toe into a better trigger for an AR. For $250 it's too expensive to do for experimentation purposes. Especially since there's a risk that I'd _NEED_ a better trigger in all my guns.


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