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Trying to find the belt composition for American fighters in WW2 led to something I did not expect.
.50 BMG M2 ball is steel core ammo.
M2 AP and M8 API have the same hardened steel core.
The mix our tank was issued in The Cold War was 3 ball, 1 AP and 1 API-T.
The most common WW2 vintage ammo can is stenciled for 105 rounds of M8 API linked.
Considering they all have the same repackaged lot number, I suspect a stencil is commonly available and this makes it seem like this marking is more common when people repaint one for sale.
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ReplyDeleteI didn't know that M2 Ball was steel core. I have rarely ever seen any of it and never thought to test with a magnet. I've got a lot of cases that were probably originally M2 Ball, but they were aquired as fired cases so the projectile was not available to test. Most of the milsurp .30-06 Spr live ammo I have bought over the years has been South Korean surplus, and I don't know if it is made to the same specs as US. I will have to go find some in my stash and test it with a magnet. Most of the ammo I've shot in my M1 Garand has been either the Korean stuff or handloads/reloads made with various brass and commercial 150gr FMJBT bullets which are lead core. Hornady or Sierra are a lot of what I've used although there are quite a few options which are similar. Primers typically either CCI or Win, and the charge I use is around 48gr of IMR 4895, which is supposed to fairly closely replicate the pressure/velocity of the original military loads. Hodgdon H4895 is also an option but the load data is a grain or two different if I recall correctly. It's an issue with M1 Garands to avoid heavier than 170gr bullets and/or charges significantly greater than the design. And also powders much faster or slower than 4895. Most people say avoid commercial .30-06 loads for those reasons, although I've run into another one -- the way an M1 Garand feeds it usually doesn't like soft point bullets, plastic "ballistic tips" (Hornady V-Max for example) or anything that diverges from the nose profile of typical FMJ Ball ammo much. Big hollowpoints, too round, too short or too long typically don't feed well. The powder charge also makes a difference on feeding because the stock M1 Garand gas system isn't adjustable. I've read some people will install an adjustable gas block, but I find it easier to just load to the rifle.
ReplyDeleteLoading for the Springfield 03A3 or my Savage 111 have a few more options. The one area I've found with the 03A3 is that it has a deep and sharp rifling pattern that causes jacked failure with Hornady V-Max bullets. The Savage of course shoots just about anything happily.
As for your stencil theory, I would even guess that since it is common to see those particular markings that people are copying it and making new stencils, perhaps even buying something commercially available as you suggest. A lot of ammo cans I've seen on the surplus market lately seem to be freshly repainted and I've heard some "replicas" are even being newly made due to demand. Prices are pretty high these days for good cans compared to what they were back in the day. A lot of what is out there is the cheap plastic stuff, but nothing beats good old steel GI ones. And I guess people are willing to pay for that, even if they may not realize they aren't original or have been repainted/remarked.
No. Not M2 Ball. M2 Ball. M2 Ball has a pure lead core. M2 Ball has a mild steel core.
DeleteClear?
.30-06 M2 ball is lead. .30-06 M2 AP is hard steel. .50 BMG M2 Ball is mild steel. .50 BMG M2 AP is hard steel.
Sometimes you have to pay attention to me talking about previous posts for it to make sense.
FWIW, I have milspec stencil sets in multiple sizes, to make up new stencils of anything for which I feel a need. Once upon a time I also had a stamp made for grenade spoons, to mark repurposed and repainted training frags to look like proper HE replicas to the casual eye.
ReplyDeleteIf I were selling repainted ammo cans, or was in the milsurp AFV trade, I would find the correct examples, and make the appropriate stencils. The internet being what it is, there are probably a certain few pics of ammo cans that come up on a search, which get handed around everywhere. People are rarely that extra level of creative enough to change up a number or two here and there. Most of the cans I brought home back in the day are marked for 155mm arty fuzes, but would obviously be "cooler" if they were re-marked as actual .50 cal cans. And someday, maybe they will be.
I suspect this is the same phenom that has dedicated hardcore CW reenactors who only wear period-correct underwear, on the theory that to truly and faithfully re-create the situation, they should be itchy and scratchy just like great-great-uncle Cletus.
Thanks for the deeper dive on the ammo.
One of these days, I want to do a comparison test between real-deal GI cans, and the Chinesium knock-offs at WallyWorld.
Just to scratch the itch that tells me they're substandard steel, lighter weight, less rugged, flimsier and more shoddy. Pretty much like anything from China.
Or, not.
But as Carl Sagan said, "I don't want to believe. I want to know."
Unless somebody like you, or Forgotten Weapons, et al, etc. beats me to it.