08 June 2021


I have been saying for years that ATF was eventually going to rule that pistol braces were stocks and these "pistols" were short barreled rifles.

Raise your hand, are you surprised?

To get really outraged, you have actually be shocked.

It's long been an legal axiom that you seek the loophole at your peril.

Peril has arrived.

But I think everyone should remember that ATF only ruled that literally shortened rifles were pistols so they could make rulings banning rifle ammunition as armor piercing because NOW it's pistol ammo.

That's where this started, not because of St Benitez.

I've also long held that SBR's and silencers should be removed from the NFA if we must have an NFA.  Deleting the NFA is the preferred solution, but baby steps.

I've seen quite a few of these guns at the range and nobody is shooting with a brace as anything but a buttstock.  Y'all KNOW it's a loophole being exploited.

I've yet to see a brace mounted on something that started the design process as a pistol.  Just guns which would be short barreled rifles if SIG-Sauer hadn't gotten approval in 2013.

The fact that I have seen them at the range speaks to their abundance.  But who's going to endure the process of getting it to the Supreme Court to get them to say, "they're in common use?"

Where are my "cold dead hands" peeps?


The truth of the matter is we need to get the fucking laws changed and remove the interpretation of those laws from the agencies tasked to enforce them.

That means being involved in politics from dog catcher on up and NEVER relaxing the pressure.

It means setting, and loudly stating, that the goal is maximum liberty and taking any baby step or concession that is in that direction.

It means ending the all or nothing stands.

It means supporting freedoms which you will not indulge in.

It means getting on your politicritter's ass about something when it's obvious where the path of tyranny leads and getting them to move on it when there's less inertia to overcome.


  1. The truth of the matter is, we need to carpet bomb the BATFE out of existence, hound a good portion of their management out of government service (along with a reasonable selection of their employees,) and salt the earth on which any BATFE office has ever been on.

    The BATFE bring stupidity like 'arm braces' around by constantly changing what little minds they have.

    Pistol shoulder braces have been around since at least the Colt Buntline, and various Lugers and other semi-auto pistols from the turn of the Century. Many of them used in 'War' by 'Armed Forces' so that definition should have been covered. Same with short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns (very popular in trench warfare from... the introduction of the hande-gonne,) brass knuckles, pistols shooting rifle ammo, rifles shooting pistol ammo, the whole nine yards of whatever someone can think of (yes, even punt guns, which are kind of a parallel evolution of wall guns, kind of, mixed with small swivel guns.)

    The correct answer from BATFE should be "Is it safe to use? Coool!" rather than "Oh, it's okay now, but we'll secretly contradict ourselves and make you all felons and destroy the manufacturers and distributors and anyone who's seen whatever you think of, let alone destroy anyone who's actually touched one of whatever you think of, and then 5 or so years after that we'll contradict ourselves (because we can) and say it's all legal again and sucker you all to build and buy a bunch and then we'll change our opinion again (while completely ignoring the 2nd Amendment, common sense or any other guiding document or line of reasoning) and re-ban whatever it is and make a whole host of you all felons all over again and those we don't put in jail directly we'll sick the IRS or other government agencies on and finish you, while shooting your dog, burning your church down, and otherwise violating all of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

  2. Baby steps isn't really the American way.

    1. We're where we're at right now because baby steps and unrelenting pressure towards a further goal works.

      Granted, that the American Way is NUKE THE MOTHERFUCKERS and not incrementalism; our side needs to start embracing strategies that actually work and not scream "SECOND AMENDMENT!" then sit down.

      I want to point out that "and the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing," is making progress at the state level. Look at how many states have Constitutional carry now. 20 years ago that was considered nigh unto impossible.

      We've also a bad streak of "well I got everything I wanted from this, fuck the rest of you" on our side. I've lost track of the number of gun owners opposed to open carry, or permitless carry because they're happy in their little rut.

    2. And let us not forget all the Fudds who tossed us under the bus in 1994. Giving up one unpopular group of gun owners just emboldens the grabbers.

    3. Never forget those that would sacrifice you to try to appease the beast hoping it will eat him last.

  3. "But who's going to endure the process of getting it to the Supreme Court to get them to say, "they're in common use?"

    The AFT put in the document pg49 that "…between 3 million and 7 million “stabilizing braces” between the years 2013 to 2020"

    "The Congressional Research Service estimated civilians already owned 10 to 40 million braces in April 2021."

    As to number needed for common use, Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016) determined that as little as 200,000 stun guns were enough for "in common use"

    And Maloney v. Singas (2018), stated that 64,890 Nunchaku sold despite being banned in several States was enough for "in common use"

    The ATF stipulated numbers of 3-7 million should be more than enough for evidence of "in common use".


    1. The good news is that once it gets anywhere, it's a slam dunk on common use.

      The bad news is, who's going to take the risk?

    2. FPC, SAF, and GOA are all going to sue the minute they can after the comment period is closed.

      Here's a quick FPC video.

    3. Time and again, an obvious assault on rights has been denied standing for a lack of a person being charged with violating the law or regulation in question.

  4. Baby steps and/or Nuke it from orbit, I don't care exactly how we get there as long as we arrive before I'm too old to enjoy the victory.

  5. These AR pistols got their start as early as 1993 with the OA-93 from Olympic Arms. William Defoe used one in the 1994 movie Clear and Present Danger giving the general public it's first exposure to this style of firearm. The OA series of AR pistols is fairly unique in having the recoil assembly above the upper receiver removing the need for a buffer tube.


You are a guest here when you comment. Be polite. Inappropriate comments will be deleted without mention. Amnesty period is expired.

Do not go off on a tangent, stay with the topic of the post. If I can't tell what your point is in the first couple of sentences I'm flushing it.

If you're trying to comment anonymously: Sign your work.

Anonymous comments must pass a higher bar than others. Repeat offenders must pass an even higher bar.

If you can't comprehend this, don't comment; because I'm going to moderate and mock you for wasting your time.