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Not-Weaponsman asks, "Can 9mm kill a bear?"
Well?
How does 9x19mm do on a bear?
The typical, full-size, 9mm will do 2d+2 pi.
A black bear has 14 HP and DR 2.
A max damage roll against the body will get 12 points in. That will slow it down, but it's going to keep coming.
Going for the vitals will deliver 36 points. That'll get a 2 death rolls on a 13 HT. So, probably not killing it.
Remember, this is a MAX roll.
An average hit will get 7 past the DR to the body and 21 to the vitals. 21 will just get a consciousness roll.
What about the brain?
The skull gets an extra 2 DR. That gets a mere 5 through the DR and that becomes 20 damage. Same as vitals, really.
If you're a really good shot and can hit it in the eye... you do 36 damage. Just enough to get two death rolls.
That's just a wee little black bear.
Grizzlies have 19 HP and polar bears have 20.
So, no, don't use 9mm on a bear.
What about something heavier? Like 10mm ACP?
10mm does 3d-1 pi+.
The average hit will do 9 raw damage, 7 will get past the DR and do 10 to the body and 21 to the vitals.
Not much better than the 9mm, actually.
It'll do 20 to the skull and 36 to the eye... That sounds familiar.
What about the legendary .44 Magnum?
3d+1 pi+!
Average hit will do 11 raw damage, 9 will get past the DR and do 13 to the body and 27 to the vitals. Better, but no death rolls.
The skull gets 28 delivered and the eye 44. 1 death roll and 4 death rolls respectively.
Pretty marginal.
How's about a shotgun?
A 12ga 2-3/4" rifled slug does 5d pi++.
Average raw damage is 17 points, 15 penetrates for 30 to the body and 45 to vitals. 1 death roll to the body and 4 death rolls to the vitals.
Hitting the skull will get 52 damage delivered, 68 through the eye socket. 5 death rolls from the skull and 9 from the eye.
Pistols are not what you want.
Polar Bears have been killed with a .22LR.
ReplyDeleteIt's all about the correct hit location. And rolling a critical hit in real life. Good gun skills obviously required.
But, yeah, more dakka, bigger gun, stuff like that.
Just like you can possibly conceivably kill a Kodiak bear with a pocket knife. Should you try? Er, nope, unless it's the last hope you have.
.22 LR from a rifle does 1d+2 pi-.
DeleteDamage done with a max damage roll: Body - 3; Vitals - 18; Skull - 16; Eye - 32.
Average damage roll: Body - 1; Vitals - 9; Skull - 4; Eye - 20.
A roll of 5 or 6 raw damage to the eye gets a death roll. If the bear then rolls poorly for its health, huzzah! (I'll bet you didn't think it was possible in GURPS to do it with a .22 did you?)
The famous example of a .22 killing a bear was an eye hit, IIRC. And more than one shot with a single shot!
Man, the more I read about GURPS the more I wish I had never invested so much into ADD. Especially after 2nd edition.
DeleteThey beat me to the Eskimo Stories. Famous because those that FAILED the 22 kills were eaten.
ReplyDeleteWhen I went Lion Hunting in Cape Town, they had a saying "Yes, the 30-06 (or 303) will kill the Lion, BUT it will not stop the Lion from killing you. Thus, the double rifle in 375 H&H Magnum while I waited in a tree stand above the bait goat.
As they took the ladder away, they told me pay attention to the goat. If it stops bleating it knows a Lion is nearby. Damn thing went to sleep. Longest night of my life. No Lion, No Sleep, NEVER Again.
Are there modifiers for ammunition type? Or is the different GURPS effect negligible between say 9mm 115gr fmj and 9mm +P 147gr hard cast?
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of anti bear tools I would expect a significant difference between traditional .45-70 black powder loads and modern .45-70 smokeless loads regardless of bullet type.
Ball 9mm is 2d+2 pi. +P will be 3d-1 pi. Changing to a hollow point makes it 2d+2(0.5) pi+ and 3d-1(0.5) pi+.
Delete+P ball would give (average) Body - 7, Vitals - 21, Skull - 20, Eye - 36.
JHP gives (average) Body - 7, Vitals - 15, Skull - 4, Eye - 36.
JHP +P gives (average) Body - 7, Vitals - 15, Skull - 4, Eye - 36.
Almost any DR screws up hollow-points and nullifies their 50% bonus to damage.
Back in 1990 someone I know was able to kill a 600 lb black bear using more than one magazine from a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle.
ReplyDeleteMost rounds were fired from bad breath distances as it was gnawing on him for at least part of the time. It broke his collar bone and hand, tore his scalp and abdomen up a bit as well.
He was out bow hunting. I don't recall for what.
When the black bear came out of the brush, the other dude that had the 12 gauge pump shotgun got off one shot before the shotgun "jammed", and he ran.
Bruce got at least one arrow off at the bear, I don't know if he hit it, then the bear was on him and he started using the Desert Eagle. I know he was able to empty one magazine into the bear, and at least part of the second magazine, if not all of it, before the bear expired.
The moral of the story is to have a backup handgun and knife, but bring the biggest gun you have if you're going into bear country.
PS: https://www.nraila.org/articles/19901201/the-daily-news-anchorage-ak-91590
PPS: His email address used to be "bearbait", it may still be but he's my brother's friend, not mine.
The general advice is that .44 Mag is the minimum acceptable handgun for "bear country". Most people like the .460 Ruger or .500 S&W. However, I think the advice that you want more than just a handgun is entirely correct... But that still wouldn't keep me from ALSO having the handgun. The biggest handgun I have is a .44 Mag. If I was going into a place frequented by Grizzlies I might want to consider a .500 S&W. I'm not sure which rifle of what I have would be the best to take. As far as delivering quantity of HP quickly, maybe my M1 Garand. .30-06 Spr is if what I looked up is correct 7d+1 and 8 rounds fired semi-auto and a reasonable reload time with enbloc clips makes me feel a lot better than 6 rounds from a revolver to begin with. For shotguns the obvious choice of what I have would be the Siaga 12. Semi auto with a 20 round box magazine full of 12 ga slugs.
ReplyDeleteKinda makes me think the thing is you don't want to go into bear country alone. 3 or more people are more likely to put enough lead on target to get it done. Especially if you consider the possibility of more than one bear.
-swj