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Unfortunately, I had to cut off the conversation just as Willard was warming to his argument... We're often in agreement about a point in a way that doesn't SEEM like we agree.
But I have theorized that the three enemy combatants at The Battle of the BTR-152 whom were shot with the, now, obsolete and useless Colt Commander and Winchester Silver-Tip ammo are now alive.
What with all this new fangled, better, guns and ammo available now, anyone killed with something so old and out of fashion must surely be rendered alive again because all such gauche guns could not possibly have ever been effective.
Right?
I am sure that snarkily calling .45 ACP "forty-five AARP" scores points with the Instructorati, but it doesn't erase decades of effective stops.
And 9x19mm Parabellum ain't no spring fucking chicken neither. It's OLDER than .45 ACP by three years!
What's happened in recent years is bullet design has allowed 9mm to perform as well as .45 did; but in smaller, lighter guns that hold more bullets and are easier to shoot.
Perform as well.
That means .45 will still get the job done, you'll just have fewer chances to hit and your gun will be bigger and heavier and you're going to have to invest more time into learning to shoot it well.
I happen to like both rounds and own several guns in each caliber.
It should be noted that those same advances in bullet design don't apply to .45 ACP because of the much lower velocities, even in light +P loads. Those same advances might explain why 10mm ACP is making a bit of a comeback, you can't accuse that round of being low velocity in most loads.
It should also be remembered that there's not a lot of difference between suitable pistol rounds at all.
We've really been arguing around the margins for a long while.
Ayup. Modern bullets and modern propellants (smokeless is better now than it was 100 years ago) have made huge leaps in performance. So much that one can even see performance improvements in such weakly calibers as .25ACP and other pocket gun calibers.
ReplyDeleteSo wouldn't those 'advanced enhancements' in 9mm bullet design also be used for creating an enhanced .45 bullet to kill people 'more deader' than before ?
ReplyDeletejrg
Ah shoot - didn't read the bottom part very well - damn Mondays !! As that Gilda Radner SNL character used to say long ago - "Never mind".
ReplyDeletejrg
I dunno if I even care anymore. I went with the 45 and got rid of my nines; the only reason for that is that the 45 seems to do better in the accuracy department with cheap cast lead bullets than the 9 does. (Although maybe a gas check might change things?).
ReplyDeleteWhatever. It's like the old one about "Which is the better calibre for deer? The .30-06 or the .270?" Pick one, learn to use it and smile.
I had two uncles who argued about which was better; .30-06 or .280 Remington. It got to the point that they could not attend family get-togethers at the same time.
DeleteI giggle that I selected a round they agreed on, .270 Win, when I addressed my bolt-gun-agony. Both were convinced that .270 was useless.
Willard provided the ultimate line about the differences between the three, "Do you think the deer can tell? Are they up there in Deer Heaven saying, 'I'm so much deader than you because I got shot with .270!"?
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ReplyDeleteOne thing of note... in order to get those bullet design/loading advantages for 9mm you mention... people actually have to be using the right ammo. If they are using old stock, budget ammo or full metal jacket, then .45 ACP still has the advantages it always had. Most of the people who buy a handgun and aren't well educated on the subject and don't do training, etc... are at the mercy of the guy behind the counter to recommend them something good... or to a certain extent luck if they just go to the shelf and pick up a box or two.
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